RadaR
The things we do for our fish..
COrrect, it's just like any other light whether it's from a bulb or from the sun. If you dont have enough CO2 and nutrients to back up the light, then you run into problems.
My Plants Look .. Rubbish :~/
- Thread starter mbsqw1d
- Start date
COrrect, it's just like any other light whether it's from a bulb or from the sun. If you dont have enough CO2 and nutrients to back up the light, then you run into problems.
SuperColey1
Planted Section
This is my tank when I bought it identical to yours with Hagen 20W bulbs on a 15W ballast:
The pink light is almost purple and the 'daylight' is actually a wam white.
A couple of weeks later with Arcadia 18W pink and daylights (freshwater and orig tropical):
If you were to put a 2 x 20W ballast yes you would get more out of 20W tubes but finding one will be the problem!!! Its easier just to accept they are underpowered and go by the 18W tubes and 15W ballast. If oyu upgrade get a 2 x 18W T8 ballast not a 20W and then buy 18W tubes which are much easier to find and you don't need to buy aquarium ones.
Since you have an algae problem you shouldn't be worried about adding more light. Get the algae sorted first and I mean cured, not dealing with the lagae!!! Dealing with the cause of the algae. Namely insufficient plants and/or plant growth.
http/www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/fish/technic_and_accessories/co2/others/102729#more
anyone recommend / not recommend this?
You'll need 2 on a 125ltr tank
AC
OP
OP
thanks SuperColey 
See, I always thought fluorescent lighting installations were delicate, in that the wattage of the ballast should match the bulbs?
IF for instance, I had a ballast with a higher Wattage rating than the bulbs/tubes installed, would this damage the bulbs? And bulbs that are being run from a lower rated ballast... do they flicker more?
See, I always thought fluorescent lighting installations were delicate, in that the wattage of the ballast should match the bulbs?
IF for instance, I had a ballast with a higher Wattage rating than the bulbs/tubes installed, would this damage the bulbs? And bulbs that are being run from a lower rated ballast... do they flicker more?
SuperColey1
Planted Section
The flicker is due to the ballast in a different way. An Electronic ballast will have virtually no flicker while you see it where an electric will. An electric will also 'flicker start' the tube. That is what degrades them so quickly.
The ballast is basically a large 'resistor' type object. It protects the tube from power surges. Therefore igf you put the wrong size ballast with the wrong size tube you can have problems in that the light doesn't start or it is underpower or overpowered.
LEDs are similar in that we use a current controller on them.
If I use a 12V adaptor to run 12V worth of LEDs you may think 'great its perfect' but there are spikes and troughs in current just as there are with most things of this nature. A spike of 5% could be the difference between an LED running at full pelt and actually melting!!! Therefore the current controller 'limits' the power. It makes sure the power is constant. Therefore making sure that you aren't replacing the LEDs frequently. A protection if oyu like.
Now think of the ballast in the same way. If you have a ballast rated at 15W then it protects the light within a tolerance level of say 5% (example and not to be taken as accurate.) That means although the tube may get 5% more occasionally but not enough to burn the tube out.
This is why a 20W tube on an 18W ballast will only get 18W (give or take the tolerance)
Turn it the other way around and run a 20W tube on a 30W ballast and you are now at the level where yes the tube will work. It may last quite a long time but it could go 'pop' at any time if it receives more than it can handle.
If a light is flickering badly it more often than not indicates that either it is not receiving enough power, or it is nearly dead or the starter needs replacing or that the electrics have a problem. Overloading will not produce the flicker. Overloading will either have the light burning very very brightly or burnt out and not lit at all.
Flourescent lights aren't as delicate as LEDs. Many manufacturers use a 'close' ballast to the tube rating. The old arcadia type external ballasts clearly state 15-18W etc. They are for a range from and to. they will however be set to handle the lower range thus limiting the higher range. These are magnetic (electric) ballasts that need a small cylindrical starter to work.
Electronic ballasts are a different kettle of fish. There are some that can handle all sizes, there are others that are specific to a certain wattage but they are much more constant. They can control the peaks and troughs much better and when using these a good quality tube will degrade only 5% or so over the first 40% of its life which means 2-3 years at minimum.
By good quality tube I am not talking the ones that have the very expensive letters AQUARIUM printed on them. In most cases they are on a par or worse than a reasonable tube and much more expensive to boot. I am talking tubes that have good CRI. Aquarium tubes tend to be in the 70-90% colour rendition accuracy range which is about par with the ones you get (except budget ones) from the DIY store for a quarter of the price. There are lights out there with CRI between 90 and 99% that are still half the price of the ones with AQUARIUM printed on them.
However most people seem to think that for an aquarium you need aquarium tubes therefore they pay the money. In reality the difference is those 7 letters printed on the box and/or tube!!! Expensive Ink
AC
The ballast is basically a large 'resistor' type object. It protects the tube from power surges. Therefore igf you put the wrong size ballast with the wrong size tube you can have problems in that the light doesn't start or it is underpower or overpowered.
LEDs are similar in that we use a current controller on them.
If I use a 12V adaptor to run 12V worth of LEDs you may think 'great its perfect' but there are spikes and troughs in current just as there are with most things of this nature. A spike of 5% could be the difference between an LED running at full pelt and actually melting!!! Therefore the current controller 'limits' the power. It makes sure the power is constant. Therefore making sure that you aren't replacing the LEDs frequently. A protection if oyu like.
Now think of the ballast in the same way. If you have a ballast rated at 15W then it protects the light within a tolerance level of say 5% (example and not to be taken as accurate.) That means although the tube may get 5% more occasionally but not enough to burn the tube out.
This is why a 20W tube on an 18W ballast will only get 18W (give or take the tolerance)
Turn it the other way around and run a 20W tube on a 30W ballast and you are now at the level where yes the tube will work. It may last quite a long time but it could go 'pop' at any time if it receives more than it can handle.
If a light is flickering badly it more often than not indicates that either it is not receiving enough power, or it is nearly dead or the starter needs replacing or that the electrics have a problem. Overloading will not produce the flicker. Overloading will either have the light burning very very brightly or burnt out and not lit at all.
Flourescent lights aren't as delicate as LEDs. Many manufacturers use a 'close' ballast to the tube rating. The old arcadia type external ballasts clearly state 15-18W etc. They are for a range from and to. they will however be set to handle the lower range thus limiting the higher range. These are magnetic (electric) ballasts that need a small cylindrical starter to work.
Electronic ballasts are a different kettle of fish. There are some that can handle all sizes, there are others that are specific to a certain wattage but they are much more constant. They can control the peaks and troughs much better and when using these a good quality tube will degrade only 5% or so over the first 40% of its life which means 2-3 years at minimum.
By good quality tube I am not talking the ones that have the very expensive letters AQUARIUM printed on them. In most cases they are on a par or worse than a reasonable tube and much more expensive to boot. I am talking tubes that have good CRI. Aquarium tubes tend to be in the 70-90% colour rendition accuracy range which is about par with the ones you get (except budget ones) from the DIY store for a quarter of the price. There are lights out there with CRI between 90 and 99% that are still half the price of the ones with AQUARIUM printed on them.
However most people seem to think that for an aquarium you need aquarium tubes therefore they pay the money. In reality the difference is those 7 letters printed on the box and/or tube!!! Expensive Ink
AC
OP
OP
thanks again! Aquarium labelled flourescents are made with custom colour spectrums though..? If I went for a standard industrial flourescent setup then surely the colour of the tubes would not be appropriate for use with an aquarium? As they would all be made for shop, office, factory use etc... Daylight colours and such..
SuperColey1
Planted Section
If you believe that then their marketing department are worth the money they are paid
Do you really believe that they make tubes with such a specific 'spectrum' that is different to standard tubes?
What difference is say a 4000K standard tube from a 4000K (pink/plant) aquarium tube?
what difference is a 6500K standard tube from a 6500K daylight aquarium tube?
The difference is that word printed on the tube and a nice coloured graph on the rear.
What colour are your 'energy efficient' compacts in the ceiling light? 2700K. That aint daylight thats warm white. lower than a 'plant' tube.
The difference is this. Aquarium tubes pinpoint their K rating as a selling point. Most tubes in B&Q or Tesco don't even tell you what the K is!!!
So an aquarium company is pointing out the K because their customer has been told it matters.
the DIY company isn't because their customer isn't particularly interested
Check out this article following. As per most of us he is using standard tubes. Forget this 'full spectrum' malarky. thats marketing
The best tube he uses here? A studio light (daylight )
http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/lighting.htm
BTW I always use daylight and have no probs. I currently use 5500K LEDs. Most definately not aquarium. they are generic
AC
Do you really believe that they make tubes with such a specific 'spectrum' that is different to standard tubes?
What difference is say a 4000K standard tube from a 4000K (pink/plant) aquarium tube?
what difference is a 6500K standard tube from a 6500K daylight aquarium tube?
The difference is that word printed on the tube and a nice coloured graph on the rear.
What colour are your 'energy efficient' compacts in the ceiling light? 2700K. That aint daylight thats warm white. lower than a 'plant' tube.
The difference is this. Aquarium tubes pinpoint their K rating as a selling point. Most tubes in B&Q or Tesco don't even tell you what the K is!!!
So an aquarium company is pointing out the K because their customer has been told it matters.
the DIY company isn't because their customer isn't particularly interested
Check out this article following. As per most of us he is using standard tubes. Forget this 'full spectrum' malarky. thats marketing
The best tube he uses here? A studio light (daylight
)http
/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/lighting.htmBTW I always use daylight and have no probs. I currently use 5500K LEDs. Most definately not aquarium. they are generic
AC
SuperColey1
Planted Section
So 2 weeks on and no imporvement?
Can I suggest something.
Keep dosing the TPN+
Keep spot dosing the liquid C (turn the filter off, wait for calm water, spot dose and then filter back on 10 minutes after)
Remove the other filter and just use the fluval pointing along the back, about an inch below the water surface.
pm me your address and I'll send you a spraybar to fit the fluval. I've got one in my 'not used for years and not likely to again' box. lol
The spraybar will do much more for your all round circulation than the spout will.
Whilst dosing the liquid C I would up the daily dose of TPN+ to 4ml if doing weekly water changes.
AC
Can I suggest something.
Keep dosing the TPN+
Keep spot dosing the liquid C (turn the filter off, wait for calm water, spot dose and then filter back on 10 minutes after)
Remove the other filter and just use the fluval pointing along the back, about an inch below the water surface.
pm me your address and I'll send you a spraybar to fit the fluval. I've got one in my 'not used for years and not likely to again' box. lol
The spraybar will do much more for your all round circulation than the spout will.
Whilst dosing the liquid C I would up the daily dose of TPN+ to 4ml if doing weekly water changes.
AC
OP
OP
Thanks as always SuperColey! .. In between previous posts and this one I have actually bought a spraybar already (only cost a couple of quid)
But thank you VERY much for the offer.I will do the suggested dosing. Thanks again
sorry to hijack this but i'm changing over to an external fluval filter and was wondering about how to make the output end of the pipe like my internal spray bar on my fluval u2. where did you get yours from for a couple of quid?
this is a very interesting, be sure to keep it updated with how you get on and if things improve.
cheers
this is a very interesting, be sure to keep it updated with how you get on and if things improve.
cheers
OP
OP
what external filter are you getting?
got spray bar off ebay (sorry, was more than a couple actually, more like £5 
)
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Pets at home have spraybars for about £6 for Fluvals. Read the box because the internal and external filter versions are different.
AC
AC
OP
OP
i have been dosing 5 - 7 ml Flourish Excel AND 5ml Tropica Plant Nutrition + each morning @ roughly 8am. My lights come on at 1pm till 7pm.
The algae is definably BBA. Since starting the thread it has actually worsened, esp on the dwarf sag. I have since cut a lot of this plant down to remove the algae. I have added 5-6 crypts to the tank also now. All in all, I have 5-6 crypts, 1 medium-large Java fern, a fair amount of Java moss, 1 anubias and around 10 large/long grown dwarf sag.
Would I actually need nutrition and co2?
The algae is definably BBA. Since starting the thread it has actually worsened, esp on the dwarf sag. I have since cut a lot of this plant down to remove the algae. I have added 5-6 crypts to the tank also now. All in all, I have 5-6 crypts, 1 medium-large Java fern, a fair amount of Java moss, 1 anubias and around 10 large/long grown dwarf sag.
Would I actually need nutrition and co2?
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Can you post up a full tank pic as it is now and also some pics of the affected areas?
IMO you shouldn't need to dose anythign at all but you shouldn't really be getting a huge BBA problem whilst dosing the excel and TPN+ under your light unless something isn't right.
Can you remind us what the substrate is too
AC
IMO you shouldn't need to dose anythign at all but you shouldn't really be getting a huge BBA problem whilst dosing the excel and TPN+ under your light unless something isn't right.
Can you remind us what the substrate is too
AC
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