My Orca Nano Tl-550 Journal

[CoMan]

Its been a little while since I last posted due to work etc but quite a bit has happened since.

I added a really small Green Ric that came on a rock with a mushroom, the two were growing over each other so I separated them and they seem to be growing a little each day.

Then things went down hill...

My cleaner shrimp disappeared?!? gutted he's been gone for ages now and I've looked everywhere for him. I did some water tests and I found two things that weren't so good. My nitrate had gone from 0 to 10 in a week and the KH had dropped from 9 to 6?

I did a water change and the nitrates went up even further to 20! I tested the new ro water and it had higher nitrates than my tank! Cant believe those guys at the LFS...I've been travelling further to another LFS now to get RO...probably going to buy my own unit soon when I have the cash.

I tackled the low KH with some buffer and over a week Ive been bringing it up little by little to 9 again and thinking of bringing it up further? what do you think?

The nitrates seem to be going down and hopefully for good?

The fish seem fine eating heaps etc although the one of the clowns has developed a thing for the spray bar??? He swims up to it and almost brushes against it? but doesn't quite touch it? He seems to do it only when the lights are on and may be once every ten mins or so...weird? Im not sure if its itch or what but cant see any spots on him... he started doing it when I added the PH buffer? Well Ill just keep and eye.

The the beauty and gramma are cool looking heathy, the beauty spends a lot of his time around the rock picking at them...occasionally I see a white dot on him but they often disappear so I think he is cool?


I'll stick some picks up soon...

 

[Seren]

Hi CoMan, was wondering how you were getting on.
Sorry to hear about your cleaner shrimp, they are such characters,although that could have caused you initial Nitrate spike,if it has died

As long as the Nitrates are going down now, you hould be OK.
As far as the KH is concerned between 7 and 10 is fine.

It sounds as though your Clown is hosting the spray bar!one of mine used to to this until they both decided to really bug my Toadstool! lol

 

[seffieuk]

Nice to see you back

Seffie x

 

[Morri]

Hi Coman what is your mag at if this is out it will effect other stat ?

 

[CoMan]

Hi CoMan, was wondering how you were getting on.
Sorry to hear about your cleaner shrimp, they are such characters,although that could have caused you initial Nitrate spike,if it has died

As long as the Nitrates are going down now, you hould be OK.
As far as the KH is concerned between 7 and 10 is fine.

It sounds as though your Clown is hosting the spray bar!one of mine used to to this until they both decided to really bug my Toadstool! lol

Cheers Seren I was gutted with the cleaner. Jed was def a character, he would always come to the front of the tank in the morning when the light was off to say high.

KH is 10 now and I'm looking to keep it there for the future.

Nice to see you back

Seffie x

Cheers Seffie. I never really gone, just work makes it hard to always have time to post etc...

Hi Coman what is your mag at if this is out it will effect other stat ?

Cheers Morri
No idea about my mag levels should I look at testing it?

 

[Trod]

You have a lovely tank there, I used to have an Orca and really liked it, its a great starter tank.
I think LFS RO water should come with a warning, I used to have the same problem so in the end I bought a RO unit, much better

 

[Seren]

Hi, CoMan, think of Magnesium as a calcium wannabe! Without getting too bogged down in the Chemistry, sometimes Mg can be substituted for Calcium during the calcification process, which means that higher Mg levels can encourage more coral growth.
(it also stops Calcium Carbonate from furring up things like heaters and pumps)If you do test,anything from 1250-1350 ppm is a good goal for Magnesium levels.
Generally, your Mg will be replenished with your regular water changes and so seldom causes a problem unless you are dosing the tank with Kalkwasser or other calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors.
As you do not have any stony corals, I would not worry too much about Mg, unless you are having problems maintaining Calcium/alkalinity levels.
Have you replaced the cleaner shrimp yet?
S

 

[CoMan]

Hi, CoMan, think of Magnesium as a calcium wannabe! Without getting too bogged down in the Chemistry, sometimes Mg can be substituted for Calcium during the calcification process, which means that higher Mg levels can encourage more coral growth.
(it also stops Calcium Carbonate from furring up things like heaters and pumps)If you do test,anything from 1250-1350 ppm is a good goal for Magnesium levels.
Generally, your Mg will be replenished with your regular water changes and so seldom causes a problem unless you are dosing the tank with Kalkwasser or other calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors.
As you do not have any stony corals, I would not worry too much about Mg, unless you are having problems maintaining Calcium/alkalinity levels.
Have you replaced the cleaner shrimp yet?
S

Thanks for the info guys!

I havent yet replaced the cleaner....to be honest Im having further issues with what Im sure is white spot for sure. The gramma and CB have white spots all over and the gramma is rubbing against the back wall a lot....Im banging my head against a wall her....just seems I can get this right!

Im doing everything by the book with regards to water changes, water tests KH PH CA NO2 NO3 salinity all spot on, a varied diet of frozen and flake. I dont get why my fish get ill then get better then get ill again two weeks later?

Ive been doing heaps and heaps of reading on the disease and how to treat them but to be honest there seems to be so much in the way of "pros and cons" to all most every different solution. I'm umming and arring over the QT option as I here it can stress the fish even more and copper treatments can have long term effects to there health. Also there seems to be information out there that suggests keeping the fish in the tank, increasing temp, reducing light cycle, feeding vitamin enriched foods and keeping water quality perfect as the way too go???

At the mo chosen the in tank option but cant say I'm convinced of this route?

 

[Seren]

I'm so sorry things are not going well at the moment, although the reason why your fish seem to be getting worse/better over two week cycles is probably due to the free living Trophont phase of the parasites life cycle, when it leaves the fish (at night) and has to find a suitable substrate in which to encyst as a Theront, this can be the sand at the bottom of the tank, detritus in a filter or even the surface of living rock. If it does not find a suitable place to form the cyst (Tomont) within 3-4 hours it usually dies.(hence why a QT should not have a substrate to help polish off this pest!
After about a week hundreds of infective theronts will have formed within the tomont. The tomont then ruptures releasing the theronts back into the water column where they seek a host. The theronts are attracted by light and move up the water column looking for a susceptible host to infect. After release the theronts are infective for about 24 hours, when the theront finds a suitable host it burrows into the skin (Trophont) which gives the whitespot we can recognise, in this stage the parasite is feeding on the fish, hence a severe outbreak can cause big problems.
As you say, there are a range of proven and unproven treatments for Cryptocaryon irritans, although as you say, many are copper based and therefore unsuitable for reef systems, the 'health theory, i.e keeping perfect water conditions and feeding enriched foods, can help keep the fish and parasites in equilibrium, so you see less or no symptoms, BUT, this will not eradicate the problem and any introduction of new fish can result in an explosion of the disease.
If you decide to QT the fish, you can try the hyposalinity method, with raised temp (slowly!) This also has the advantage of leaving your main tank fallow and thus starving the Crypt and killing them off after about a month or so.
Don't bother with Garlic/Pepper or any other 'tratments' which have no scientific basis , also avoid 'freshwater dipping' of the fish as the Trophont lives in the fish not on the surface!
Hope that helps
S

 

[CoMan]

I'm so sorry things are not going well at the moment, although the reason why your fish seem to be getting worse/better over two week cycles is probably due to the free living Trophont phase of the parasites life cycle, when it leaves the fish (at night) and has to find a suitable substrate in which to encyst as a Theront, this can be the sand at the bottom of the tank, detritus in a filter or even the surface of living rock. If it does not find a suitable place to form the cyst (Tomont) within 3-4 hours it usually dies.(hence why a QT should not have a substrate to help polish off this pest!
After about a week hundreds of infective theronts will have formed within the tomont. The tomont then ruptures releasing the theronts back into the water column where they seek a host. The theronts are attracted by light and move up the water column looking for a susceptible host to infect. After release the theronts are infective for about 24 hours, when the theront finds a suitable host it burrows into the skin (Trophont) which gives the whitespot we can recognise, in this stage the parasite is feeding on the fish, hence a severe outbreak can cause big problems.
As you say, there are a range of proven and unproven treatments for Cryptocaryon irritans, although as you say, many are copper based and therefore unsuitable for reef systems, the 'health theory, i.e keeping perfect water conditions and feeding enriched foods, can help keep the fish and parasites in equilibrium, so you see less or no symptoms, BUT, this will not eradicate the problem and any introduction of new fish can result in an explosion of the disease.
If you decide to QT the fish, you can try the hyposalinity method, with raised temp (slowly!) This also has the advantage of leaving your main tank fallow and thus starving the Crypt and killing them off after about a month or so.
Don't bother with Garlic/Pepper or any other 'tratments' which have no scientific basis , also avoid 'freshwater dipping' of the fish as the Trophont lives in the fish not on the surface!
Hope that helps
S

Seren

Your a great help and I really appreciate the time you've taken in advising me here. I've chosen to keep them in the main tank for the time being as I feel that removing them treating them and then returning them is stressful in its self and could cause future white spot. Im going to concentrate on keeping my parameters spot on to give them a fighting chance. I've spoken directly with people that have done both QT and in-tank treatments and both say that having known what they know now, the fish have just as good chance fighting it off naturally.

cheers

 

[Seren]

No probs,will keep my fingers crossed for you,you have gone this far without a major outbreak so you must be doing something right!
Perhaps doing your water changes at night and giving your substrate a quick 'hoover'may help when the spots are not visible on the fish,too.
I'm sure you will get on top of the little swine!
Cheers
S

 

[CoMan]

No probs,will keep my fingers crossed for you,you have gone this far without a major outbreak so you must be doing something right!
Perhaps doing your water changes at night and giving your substrate a quick 'hoover'may help when the spots are not visible on the fish,too.
I'm sure you will get on top of the little swine!
Cheers
S

Im going to try my hardest...I've just tested my water and all is good accept Ph which is 7.99 so will add a little buffer, my worry is that it has been dropping at night??

Im going to battle this to the end!lol

Thanks again for your help

 

[seffieuk]

we are watching your battle and keeping our fingers crossed

Seffie x

 

[CoMan]

You have a lovely tank there, I used to have an Orca and really liked it, its a great starter tank.
I think LFS RO water should come with a warning, I used to have the same problem so in the end I bought a RO unit, much better

Trod

What unit did you get? I've been looking into getting one but not sure if I would need the amount of water it would create? Does that make sense? have I got this wrong?

 

[seffieuk]

Trod bought an RO man one, think it was 90 gallons or similar.

You only make as much water as you want

Seffie x