My Ich Treatment - High Heat Saltwater 29G Tank

[vwdank]

  Well My new Electric Blue Rams have Ich and after a day in half of research I began treatment last night. I am super OCD about doing something wrong and I am the type that likes to find very detailed instructions and/or opinions on the issue. I know Ich is very common disease and this is not my first rodeo but I feel like the last time I just got lucky since all i did was use chemicals to treat. In my research that i gathered from Site to Site and believe it or not a book. I decided on the High Heat Salt water treatment vs the chemical. I've read many opinions on both and although the chemical way has worked just fine I am only going to use that method has last option.
 
First I am not advocating that what I list below is the correct or proper way for this treatment. This is just for my educational learning experience and constructive feedback to guide me along this process. 
 
There were other factors that made the Heat/Salt treatment more appealing due to the fact I have lots of MTS that I actually like to keep alive. and did not want to waste time and removing Lots of MTS. But there were two minor CONS with Heat/Salt 
 
1. I have three plants and obviously salt is not good for them. Luckily I found documentation that the plants I have Low light Moderate have survived in brackish water.  Java Moss, Banana Plant, Hornwort and a Moss Ball, honestly i just realized to research the Moss Ball.
2. I also have some Tetras and Turquoise Rainbow only the Blue Neon and Turquoise show max heat at 77-78º so I hope they make it through as i do not have a back up tank for them and the will not survive in my 55 gal with Oscar plus i don not want to infect that tank as well.
 
I really could not find concrete theory of doing a water change before beginning so i just went with my instinct. 
 
Day 1. Increase Heat Gradually-
The day before yesterday 1/26/16 (right before bedtime) I started to increase the heat from 77º to 85-86º over at least a one day period. I read either form 48 hour period to +2º every two hours. The next day when I came home from work the temp was at 82º compared to 80º that morning. I feed fish a good amount of blood worms; I read and heard that increase heat equals increased metabolism. I did a 50% water change with light gravel cleaning and only added 1.5 Tbsp Aquarium salt to 15g of treated water( I assume you can treat s usual when adding salt). I dissolved the salt in buckets before adding to the tank using the cup method. I also made sure the temp of new water was at least 82º it was actually at 81.7º when i begin adding the water.
 
side note -
Observing the fish after the water change I can see that the Ich is showing a lot more on the EBR's with very little to no signs on the other fish but I did spot one white spec on a silvertip tetra.
Two days prior when i came home one of the triggers i thought something was wrong is when i turned the lights on all of the fish were almost frozen looking and twitching but stated moving around normally about 15 minutes after; well normal to me, I am still learning how fish are supposed to act. I checked Nitrates / Nitrites and Ammonia all 0ppm Ph has been steady at 7.3 which i am trying to get to 6.5 range for the EBR's by adding driftwood (new block added 4 days ago, was this the issue?)
 
I continued to increase the heat a little and I also hooked up a air pump with tubing into the tank to help with adding oxygen as well as moved the internal filter higher to give more surface ripples or whatever you call it. Something about high heat plus the symptoms of Ich fish have trouble breath and it's good to add some oxygen aid, there is more scientific reasons but i will not get into now. Befor going to sleep temp was back to 82.1º so increased a little more.
 
Day 2. Temp is at 84.7º 
MTS are more prominent at the top of the tank but they do that at night but seems like a lot more then usual. Before i headed to work i up the heat knob just barely.
 
You are supposed to use the High heat method for at least 10days or 3-4 days after white spots are gone and then gradually reduce heat. 
 
I will keep everyone posted as I go and I welcome any encouragement/ advice.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[ricbea]

Following this, I have been lucky so far (touch wood) that I have not had an outbreak. I will definitely gain some learning from this topic.
 
Richard.

 

[vwdank]

Still Day 2 home from work:
The temp is at 85.0º, no dead fish (YES!) I had the worst feeling walking in the room. Still only the EBR's show signs of the white spots but even more, makes me sad. They were defiantly hungry so another heavy dose of Bloods worms. I really want mix the food up instead of premium flakes and blood worms. i was suggested tubiflex worms but the LFS did not have any in stock. I'm sure petco does.
 
I think I need to just take the plunge and go to 86º what I am trying to decide is when to add more salt, how much, when?(just thinking to myself or is it? Isn't talking to your self while your typing really thinking? never mind.) where was I; oh yea so I'm trying to figure out when i should add more salt
 
 
I guess i should include the links where i gathered most of my information 
 
I just read this very good and clean
http/www.theaquariumwiki.com/Ich
 
this one gave me the confidence; yea I said it, I need re-assurance.
http/www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php
 
This one made me laugh quite a bit. so touchy
http/www.mrsaltwatertank.com/terrible-advice-tuesdays-what-really-kills-ich-cryptocaryon-irritants/
 
 

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Unless you haven't gotten the salt level up to where you think you need it don't add more without a water change. The salt won't dissolve. You have to manually remove it with water changes. Hope that helps! also with the heat treatment it usually gets worse before it gets better as it will speed up the life cycle of the ich, if you didn't know that. I can't remember the temp that it should get to though before the ich doesn't breed anymore. You may already have that info. I did just the heat treatment for a long time when my tetras had ich and was able to get rid of it. It just takes a while sometimes. Good luck!

 

[vwdank]

Unless you haven't gotten the salt level up to where you think you need it don't add more without a water change. The salt won't dissolve. You have to manually remove it with water changes. Hope that helps!

also with the heat treatment it usually gets worse before it gets better as it will speed up the life cycle of the ich, if you didn't know that. I can't remember the temp that it should get to though before the ich doesn't breed anymore. You may already have that info. I did just the heat treatment for a long time when my tetras had ich and was able to get rid of it. It just takes a while sometimes. Good luck!

 
Thanks Cowgirl! You basically confirmed how i wanted to proceed. I only used a little over 1 Tbsp in a 5 gal bucket when I did a 50% water change at the beginning. I am not going to add any more salt at this time and see if the high heat by its self will do the trick.
 
Yes When i got home last night i can see that it's already sped up the process as my two EBR's looked like two glittered up disco queens.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Not a problem! I also had read you should do a bunch of water changes and good gravel vacs to get any of the loose polyps(or whatever they are called) that aren't attached to the fish. Helps to get it out before attachment I guess. I hope your successful in your treatments!

 

[vwdank]

I thought I read that somewhere, should I do a 50% change today and then a 25% change daily? or should I just do 25% daily water change for the next 6 days and then do a large water change at the end of the treatment cycle?

 

[cowgirluntamed]

That's up to you really on how much you want to change. It won't hurt anything. And what's funny is I just turned my computer on today and had some notes up and I think I did use salt when I treated! I forgot...you just sort of have to measure how much you've taken out and only add that much more in I think. Here were the notes I wrote up on the information I found.
 
85 Degrees F does not infect new fish
86 Degrees F stops the ich from breeding
89.5 Degrees F kills the ich
 
Make sure to increase aeration as the higher the heat the less oxygen the water can hold.
 
1 tablespoon of aquarium salt per 5 gallons of water(This was on the low side of what I found if I remember correctly. I did not have plants at the time either.)
 
And last but not least, daily partial water changes!
 
I do believe though that I only went up to 86 or 87. But I think it took a good 3 to 4 weeks before I was able to turn the temperature back down. I think I left it up a good week and a half or two weeks when I finally didn't see any spots. Better safe than sorry if the fish are doing ok. Anyway, I guess that's what I did. Water changes daily are definitely a great idea though!
 
On a side note...I believe I also used that much aquarium salt to get rid of columnaris as well. It was the only thing that worked for it and the fish recovered nicely. (No higher temps needed for that.)

 

[vwdank]

Very good information cowgirl I will add the salt then during water change in new water only
 
My temp is at 86.1 holding steady
 
I have two air pumps with tubing going into the tank now running for extra aeration.
 
I'll keep you posted 

 

[vwdank]

Day 4:
Temp holding at 86.2º  Another 50% water change and this time when i added the fresh 50% back I added 1 Tbsp of  aquarium salt per 5 gallon bucket.
 
Good news Female EBR has lost most of her white spots I can only see three left. Male EBR still has quite a few spots but much better then before so i will take this as very good news. All of the Tetras never really showed signs of Ich but one white spot on a fin.
 
I also can tell that the fish look or are acting back to normal from what i can tell. I will continue to do daily water changes here on out
 
I forgot to mention my LFS warned me today about high heat with my MTS and salt too. I collected as many as i could and have them in a bucket that I'm pre-soaking some driftwood with heater and foam filter for some air flow. 

 

[vwdank]

Today is early Day 7 but below is from Day 5 & 6:
 
30% water change day 5 and 6. On Day 5 I can tell the Male EBR is looking better but still quite a few Spots and the Female still has her one main spot on her nose.
 
I am also noticing that my Banana plant is turning yellow and not sure if it will make it even tough i read it can survive brackish water.
 
Day 6 the male has lost almost all his spots and the female still has her one on the nose. The Female kind of worried me when I got home last night has she was hiding deep inside a lava rock that i created a cave out of almost felt like the early stages of dying. but after a few minutes she came out and was swimming around looking for food. I also notice she was not quick to the food as usual either. I will definitely be keep an eye on her.

 

[vwdank]

End of day 7:
The only sign of Ich is the one spot on the Female's nose. Could it be Fish lice? would the same treatment work? I guess I'll have to study up on it to be sure.
 
looks like this weekend I can start with bringing the water temp slowly and I will stop the salt treatment too

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I would keep going with the treatment until that spot disappears. I had my heat up for maybe 3 weeks or so to make sure all spots were gone. Once that spot releases from the fish it will put more floaters in the water. This is what will infect the fish again. I would at least leave the temp up for one solid week when you are sure you see no more spots at all. Otherwise things can just get reinfested again.

 

[vwdank]

I would keep going with the treatment until that spot disappears. I had my heat up for maybe 3 weeks or so to make sure all spots were gone. Once that spot releases from the fish it will put more floaters in the water. This is what will infect the fish again. I would at least leave the temp up for one solid week when you are sure you see no more spots at all. Otherwise things can just get reinfested again.

 
Ok I will...(kicks dirt) I just feel like they are not happy with all this high heat and salt. I kinda knew this is the right path and glad you commented on it. I either need a kick in the butt or reassurance on what to do especially with something i never experienced. 

 

[cowgirluntamed]

It's OK. Nobody wants to see their fish stressed! I doubt they like the heat but if it gets them through it then its worth it, right? Best to do it right the first time and not have another outbreak! Oh, and I was slightly off on the life cycle of ich. Once it's off the fish, it goes into the gravel and multiples in that little shell. Then it releases thousands into the water. This is the only stage it can be truly killed at and this is what you have to wait for. You are doing great since most of the spots are gone though! Though if it would make you feel better, if that one spot doesn't fall off in 2 or 3 days, maybe see if you can get a picture of it to post? Though if you think it looks like ich then it probably is. Some spots just take longer to fall off. Also, here is a link that explains the life cycle of ich and some myths and treatments for it.

Freshwater ich-- http/www.badmanstropicalfish.com/forum/index.php?topic=1285.0

You may have to copy and paste that as I'm not sure how to link it from my tablet. Lol. Anyway, keep going! You're doing great!