My First Freshwater Aquarium

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nkd5024

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Hey everyone on the freshy side of the forum!

My name in Nick, I am active in the dark side of this forum and have been keeping reef aquariums for the past 5 years.

I am in the process of upgrading my 30 gallon reef to a 75 gallon.
So now I have an empty 30 gallon and like any true aquarist, decided to put it to use. :good:

I have never had a freshwater aquarium before so I was wondering if there are any difference I need to know about other than these:
-No salt (what types of tanks use that freshwater salt?)
-No Skimmers
-Have to use "Right RO" to make RO water freshwater safe
-Not all fish can be kept together because of different pH, Temp, Alk, etc Needs
-Sumps aren't used

I originally wanted to do cichlids, but they all seem to need larger than 30 gallon tanks so thats out.
My next plan was a planted tank with a large peaceful community.
It is true that you can keep a lot more fish than in a saltwater aquarium the same size correct?

I was looking at a few different fish on liveaquaria and wanted to know if I could keep,
A school of Neon Tetras
some Killifish
Tiger or Cherry Barbs

Would they all be able to go together?
According to liveaquaria they all have somewhat different water parameters needs but they all overlap, so is it possible?

Thank you for all your help, I am a total newbie when it comes to freshwater tanks so any help is appreciated!
Nick

P.S. Any information of the golden or blue rams would be nice!
 
Welcome to the freshies!!!
Im only a newbie myself, but one thing i have picked up and can help you with, it neons like a mature filter - 6mths + cycled....sorry I cant be anymore help though :)

K
 
You can just use your tap water for fresh water unless you plan to keep something very delicate. No need for RO water.

If you already have the tank drilled and sump then although you don't need it. It can be used for filtration instead of an external filter. What they used to do back in the day before fancy externals.

Most tropical fish will survive together as long as ther not either predatory or the required conditions vary wildly.
 
I'm pretty new to keeping fish, but I know that rams are aggressive, so you'll need to look into good tank mates for them if you'd like them to become your centre piece fish.
You don't need RO water, you just need tap water, but make sure it's dechlorinated first!
The only real problem with keeping fish together is if they're aggressive or anything, so you'll need to research the different types of fish you're looking to get and then ask or try and work out whether they would work well together to avoid any aggression or deaths.
Hope that helped! Good luck with your new aquarium! :)
 
I've kept golden rams before and they are beautiful fish to look at but might become territorial towards some species, mines had a dislike for my angelfish for some reason. I keep 2 Blue rams at the moment and they like a good scrap, they'll nip at each other whenever theres food involved but after researching this I've found that its only worrying if they do it when food isn't food on the go. In general they are great wee cichlids and are very curious but they do like a good bit of plants in the tank to act as cover. They do fine in a community tank too btw.
 
Wow, the difference in member activity is night and day between the fresh and saltwater sections.
I posted this topic at 1:00pm and in 9 hours there have been 4 posts.
It also took me a few minutes to find my topic because so many other topics were posted in, which moved mine down.
In the saltwater forums you'd be lucky to get one response in 9 hours, and your topic is usually the first one on the list for at least a day or two.

I didn't know rams were aggressive, although I didn't do TONS of research so its not really that surprising.
I have heard that neon tetra's are somewhat finicky, although I find this very hard to believe since the freshwater aquariums my parents had when I was a child always had neon tetras that never seemed to die.
And they just slapped a small filter, heater, gravel and tank together, added water and fish (neon tetras) and everything seemed to work out for them.

Maybe they were just lucky. :huh:

Are you sure I can just use tap water?
You guys aren't worried about what heavy metals and pesticides and other drugs, etc. are in it?
It might cost a little bit more to buy the liquid RO right from Kent to be able to use RO water, but I would feel safer doing that personally. :crazy:
Plus I already have the RO unit so its not like I have go buy one.

I don't have this tank drilled, but I will have an extra overflow sine my new tank will be drilled.
Do you think its worth it to use the overflow with a 10 or 20 gallon sump?
I would have a spare return pump as well as the PVC return piping that I am using now so it wouldn't cost me any more.

What would I put in the sump? Just some mechanical filtration and run carbon, phosphate, and nitrate remover?
Do many people use Turf Algae scrubbers for freshwater?


Thanks for your help,
Nick.
 
rams aren't overly aggressive, they are suggested as community fish with perfect reason. they do get territorial if breeding, and males dont get on with eachother, but a m/f pair of beter m/ff trio would be fine. mine arent aggressive to anything in my tank below. an alternative to rams are apistogramma's, also dwarf cichlids, generally same behaviour if a little more boistrous. with a nice area for them to call 'home' they should be fine.

your mum and dad probably kept neons well because at that point they werent so massively inbred. their popularity is producing weak fish.

when it says tapwater, it means tapwater but with dechlorinator added. the dechlorinator removes anything that shouldnt be in the water. RO water would work, but would remove nutrients and trace elements any real plants and fish would like. tap water + dechlor = perfectly good enough. something like 'tapsafe' is what i use.
 
Are you sure I can just use tap water?
You guys aren't worried about what heavy metals and pesticides and other drugs, etc. are in it?
It might cost a little bit more to buy the liquid RO right from Kent to be able to use RO water, but I would feel safer doing that personally. :crazy:
Plus I already have the RO unit so its not like I have go buy one.

I don't have this tank drilled, but I will have an extra overflow sine my new tank will be drilled.
Do you think its worth it to use the overflow with a 10 or 20 gallon sump?
I would have a spare return pump as well as the PVC return piping that I am using now so it wouldn't cost me any more.

What would I put in the sump? Just some mechanical filtration and run carbon, phosphate, and nitrate remover?
Do many people use Turf Algae scrubbers for freshwater?


Thanks for your help,
Nick.

The problem is with using RO water is it removes some of the minerals and other trace elements which in marine are a nightmare but in tropical are required by the fish and plants. You could mix 50/50 RO water to tap water but unless you live somewhere where the tap water is very poor this is unneccesary effort and you tank will probably benefit more from having tap water.

Personally i would put mechanical and bioligical media in the sump. Carbon, phosphate and nitrate removers are not needed in tropical in the way they are in marine. I know 90% of marine tanks have at least phosphate remover but probably only 1% of tropical do this.
 
Cool, I will look into getting a Male/Female/Female trio then, that sounds like a good idea.

So, inbreeding the reason they are fragile now, I hate that crap, its ruining captive breed saltwater fish as well, clownfish, purple psudochromis, etc.
It just makes me mad, because it wouldn't be extremely hard to at least try to prevent it, yeah know what I mean.
Just use a bunch of breeding pairs and when they sell say 100 of them take 5 babies from 20 different parents.
Then keep introducing a few new breeding pairs from the wild, it may not eliminate the problem but at least help.

Are there any physical deformities that are common in inbreed neon tetra's that I should be on the look out for when purchasing?
I know clownfish and the purple pseudochromis can have either deformed jaws or issues with their coloration.


I know you use de-chlorinator with tap water, but tap water may contain trace amounts of anti-bacterials, other pharmaceuticals, sulfates, nitrates, arsenic, etc.
I really don't feel safe using de-chlorinated tap water if there is any risk of possibly exposing my animals to these chemicals.
I already own an RO unit, so its not that inconvenient for me. I just have to add RO right to the water to give it the alk, pH, etc. that I need it to have.
I think it will actually be a lot easier to control the pH since I can add whatever buffers I need which it is still RO water.


THanks guys,
Nick D.
 
i love your salty take on tap water ... its so intresting compared to most of our "freshies" dechlorinate and fill view on it :)
im sure you will find a method that suits you and id like to see how you plan on cutting your water and controlling it, as its sumthing ive considered (and been advised against) doing because my PH is sky high (yet balanced) most of the time.

good luck and welcome to the fresh side :)
 
if there was a problem with just using tapwater and dechlorinator, i dont think we'd all be doing it :hey: pure Ro will be no good to tropical fish or plants, a mix would be alright, as you say.
 
If you are set on using RO water then why not try keeping Discus as these are some of the most sensitive fish for water chemistry?
 
FishareFriendsNotFood:

Thank you. :fun:

What do you mean by cutting my water? Buffering, or just the process I plan to use to get the water to the correct parameters?


Moochy13:

There are many things in this world that people know cause problems but do anyway.
for example, heroin addicts know that heroin causes problems but continue to use it anyway.
I just wanted to point out that your point wasn't very valid, as I'm not saying that using tap water/de-chlorinator is bad.
I just personally feel that using RO water with a mix would better for my animals, but again that is only MY opinion.
But I wouldn't be surprised if some of the freshies use tap water because RO units cost a nice amount and may not be a huge deal better for the fish, so the benefit of using RO wouldn't be worth the price, you know what I mean?
I really just want to make sure that you don't think I am saying anyone is wrong for using tap water, obviously it works for a bunch of people.

One issue I just realized with using tap water is, what do you replace evaporated water with?
If you add tap water to replace the water that has been evaporated, wouldn't you be continually raising the hardness of the water?
Evaporation only removes water, but leaves behind all the minerals/salts that made up its hardness, if you add tap water to replace it you would be adding all that extra salt/hardness to the tank, which after a while would build up.


Aqua Tom:

I would love to have a tank with some Discus. They are BEAUTIFUL fish, but I am only going to have a 30 gallon tank to use for my freshwater setup.
Don't all Discus need 50 gallons at the minimum?
I also really like cichlids, mostly african cichlids, but don't these also need at least 50 gallons?
Plus cichlids can't live with a lot of plant life, correct?
Where as Discus can be in planted tanks with neon tetras and other community fish?
If Discus can live peacefully with other community fish, than I really wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for a 55gal. tank for them. In which case I would more than likely use a sump.
Let me know what you think.

Thanks you everyone for your thoughts and input.
I really hope I didn't offend anyone using tap water, and if I did, maybe it will help to explain that I do not ever drink tap water, use it make coffee, or even water my plants with the stuff.
I look at tap water as recycled urine from millions of people taking millions of pharmaceuticals each day.
HAHA call me crazy if you will, I look at it as using caution!

Nick.
 
I don't think that people are really taking offence at you not wanting to use tap water so much as trying to explain that RO filters are indiscriminate. They remove the good from the water as well as the bad. Although this is neccesary for marine, using pure RO water for tropical would generally not be advised. There are things in tap water that would benefit your plants and animals that an RO filter will strip out.

As for evaporation most tropical do weekly water changes and due to there not being issues with sanility ect evaporation doesn't become an issue.
 
i do appreciate what you're saying. i think that tropical owners dont have RO units because we dont need them, and as mentioned they take out minerals etc that tropical tanks need to thrive. as i said in my previous post, i dont see why a mix wouldnt work, its not necessary but i cant see it being a problem. i think in general tropical keeping is a lot less precise and controlled than salty keeping, with a lot mroe leeway for water parameters. i literally just dechlor my water, get it roughly the right temp, then pour it in. job done. my plants are growing massively well, my fish are healthy and growing, my water stats are always great, i hoover the tank once a week, replacing about 25% of the water. and once a month i squeeze the excess crap off the filter sponges.

as for evaporating water, as mentioned most tropical keepers do weekly water changes, so water properties are kept in balance. i dont measure my water change, i change however much water is removed in the time i need to hoover the substrate properly.

also, pH wise, i dont know what its like with marine fish, but i've read on here tropical fish at least can easily adapt to a given Ph, providing its not massively out. bear in mind also fish that have been locally bred will probably be in the same water you're using. i'll hold my hands up, i pretty much ignore a fish's pH requirement. ive never had a problem (mine is about 7.6), as i said my fish seem to be happy and healthy. as for hardness, not once have i ever measured mine, no idea what it is. i know im in a hard water area, but thats it.

discus can be kept in a community, thats all i know about them though. as for your resistance to tapwater - fish pee and poo in their own water, i doubt a bit of fresh tapwater will concern them :lol:
 

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