My "add And Wait" Fishless Cycle Diary :)

[Tropical_Noobie]

Nice one PDSimon,

I was getting Ammonia level and pH mixed up ! (Typical Noobie, lol)

I want to make sure I know what I am doing as I cannot wait to add some fish and see the look on my 9 month old Grandsons face ! That is the main reason for getting a tank in the first place...

Clint.

 

[PDSimon]

Nice one PDSimon,

I was getting Ammonia level and pH mixed up ! (Typical Noobie, lol)

I want to make sure I know what I am doing as I cannot wait to add some fish and see the look on my 9 month old Grandsons face ! That is the main reason for getting a tank in the first place...

Clint.

If your interested, I have a blog on here too. My ammonia is past dropping 5ppm per day but i'm waiting for my nitrites to start dropping by 5ppm per day now! I'm very new to it all too. I can't wait to get fish either!

 

[Ryefish]

I am currently testing my PH every day but thats purely because there has been numerous times during my cycle that it has dropped to 6 on the chart. If you want to test PH (there is no rules about doing it or not doing it), start with the 'PH' bottle, if you get a reading of 7.6, then test using the 'High PH'. You may get a 7.6 aswell, but atleast you know it is right. I do the same the other way round aswell, if im expecting a high PH (if the PH has been above 7.4 for a while) and i get a reading of 7.4 when i test, i test the lower PH range to make sure its right.
I think it is fairly common for a PH to bounce up and down during a cycle.

 

[Tropical_Noobie]

Thanks for your reply Gent's.

I will have a look at your Blog Si I might learn something.

My tap water results using the API Freshwater Master test kit are as follows:

pH:7.2 - 7.4 I would say as it is in between.
Ammoina: 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 40 ppm
KH 40.43 ppm

Tank water results 24 hrs in after adding 3.53ml of ammonia as recommended using the Calcuator:

Time: 00.00 Date:27 April 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.0 ppm - 5.00 ppm

Time: 00.00 Date:28 April 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.00 ppm -5.00 ppm

pH: 7.6 ppm at least "off the scale"

pH high: 8.00 ppm

Time: 00.00 Date:29 April 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.0 - 5.00 ppm

pH: off the scale

pH high: 8.0 ppm

Clint.

 

[OldMan47]

Your pH test of 8.0 means that the "normal range" test is meaningless. It will continue to be off scale high. Your test for nitrites and nitrates affect each other. If you truly have high nitrites, you will see results for nitrates even if there are none. The nitrites interfere with proper testing for nitrates. OK so where does this leave you? As I see it, you are very early in your cycle and just need to be patient while waiting for your bacterial colonies to develop and mature. When they do, the ammonia and nitrite processing will move forward and give you nice chemical results.
Something we often forget is that although we measure the chemistry of our water using inorganic and rapid testing methods, the bacteria that we are trying to culture are far from a simple chemical process. They are an organic process that relies on much more than the nitrite or ammonia levels to thrive. We are trying to develop a group of living beings to serve our needs, and it does not always go the way we might expect. It is hard to accept but easy to understand that those bacterial colonies will do as the please although we are providing ideal conditions for their reproduction.

 

[Tropical_Noobie]

My "add And Wait" Fishless Cycle Diary

My tap water results using the API Freshwater Master test kit are as follows:

pH:7.2
Ammoina: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm
KH: 304.3 ppm divided by 17.9 = 17.000000000000004 German degrees

Ok I am back with my new Tetratec Ex600 External Filter up and running


Day 1:

Time: 2200 Date:6th May 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.0 ppm

 

[waterdrop]

Hi TN, I was reading back through your thread and realized we only gave you advice here and there. Looks like you are starting again with a new filter? What type and what are the types of media you have in there? (apologies if this is in another thread!)

Is it really true that your tap water nitrite(NO2) is testing out at 40ppm? I've never heard of anything like that before! Any chance you have access to any distilled or bottled water and could test that with your nitrite(NO2) test kit? I'd like to try a little to determine if the NO2 test kit is ok.

We sometimes see 40ppm of nitrate(NO3) in tap water, its not all that uncommon but nitrite is almost never seen.

Another thing I'm wondering about is your mineral content. You keep listing 40.42ppm as your KH. If I divide that by 17.9 to put the scale in german degrees (which is what we usually communicate in) then you seem to have less than one degree of carbonate hardness, which indicates it will be very easy for your pH to crash. Is there any chance that you got a GH test as part of a combined GH/KH test kit set when you bought your KH kit? I'd be interested in your GH value.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tropical_Noobie]

Hi ~~waterdrop~~

Many thanks for looking at my post and pointing out my high nitrite(NO2) reading (silly me) it's 0 ppm

I got confused with nitrate(N03)and nitrite(N02) my nitrate(N03) is 40ppm ( now edited )Thanks

You have also mentioned my KH. I have counted 17 drops to turn the water colour from blue to yellow. I am using an api KH test kit
perhaps I have calculated the wrong reading?
I understand it now ( I think)(12 drops) 214.8 + (5 drops) 89.5 = 17 drops total 304.3 ppm divided by 17.9 = 17.000000000000004 German degrees

Any help would be great!

Also you mentioned what media I have in my new Tetratec Ex600 External Filter (please see below)

TetraTec CR Ceramic Rings
TetraTec BB BioBalls
TetraTec CF Carbon Filter Medium
TetraTec BF Biological Filter Foam
TetraTec FF Filter Floss Pad

I look forward to your reply,

Thanks again

Clint.

 

[waterdrop]

OK, Hi Clint, lots of info now and looking much better...

Nitrate(NO3) of 40ppm in the tap water, rather than it being nitrite(NO2) is what I suspected and I'm glad we've confirmed that. The nitrate being there will not be a problem, whereas the nitrite(NO2, being a much more serious poison, would! So no problem in the tap water department as far as our fishless cycle goes.

OK, so carbonate hardness (also known as temporary hardness, a term you may have heard) is the thing measured when we use the term "KH" (which stands for the german words for carbonate hardness I believe) and the whole reason we talk in german degree terms a lot is because when you do the typical "drop" (as in dripping one drop of test reagent into the testtube at a time) test you are literally counting up your german degrees right then and there! If you drip in 17 drops to get to the color change, then you have 17 degrees of hardness, no calculations needed. Its that easy. And it holds true for both GH and KH tests (but with different reagents of course.

A KH=17 reading is totally the opposite of a KH=0 reading, so its good we've cleared this up. Your KH is good and solid and will help you maintain a steady pH. It means the pH will be less likely to rapidly drop once the fishless cycling causes Nitrate(NO3) to be high. This is all good.

Finally, the Tetratec EX600 is a very good EC filter and the media they start you off with are good so I'd just leave them the way they are. That's good too!

So does that leave us with any questions?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tropical_Noobie]

Hi ~~waterdrop~~

I'm glad you have given me the Thanks for your time and help! If you don't mind could you keep an eye on my posts just to make sure I am on track and not making any more noobie mistakes lol.

Thanks again

Clint.

ps. You are correct' carbonate hardness is Karbonathärte in German!

 

[Tropical_Noobie]

Day 1:

Time: 2200 Date:6th May 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.0 ppm

Day 2:

Time: 2200 Date:7th May 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.0 ppm

pH: "off the scale"

pH high: 8.00 ppm

 

[PDSimon]

 

[waterdrop]

OK, good, you've got a great pH (8.0 is in the perfect range) and you're logging that you're up to the right temperature and you've got a good filter, so now its just a matter of setting in to the two months of testing!

If you get very lucky and someone offers you some mature media from their filter and the two of you are near enough for a swap then that could accelerate your fishless cycle. It does that of course by jumping you up the curve of the number of bacterial cells.

An external cannister filter like the Tetratec EX600 that you have probably brings the tank water in and releases it at the very bottom of the filter box (that's how my eheim does it) where there's some empty room for mulm to collect and large debris to fall after its been trapped at the first stage. Then the water flows upward, pulled by the pumphead as it pumps water back to the tank. The water first encounters the most coarse filtration (perhaps a coarse sponge combined with ceramic rings or bioballs perhaps. Then the media gets more fine in higher trays (don't know how many vertical trays the EX600 has though.)

The goal with mature media (MM) placement is to try and place the mature media directly before the new media in the water path. But ideally you'll want to match coarseness with what the filter is trying to do at each stage. So, for instance, you wouldn't want to put fine media in front of the first coarse media layer in the water path but rather higher up, in front of other fine media. Does that make sense?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tropical_Noobie]

Thanks for the Si.

Looks like I am on the right path then finnaly

Lets hope I am lucky enough to get some mature media ~~waterdrop~~ some time soon? If not I will wait for my own to mature

Also Thanks ~~waterdrop~~ for the info on what part of the filter to place it in.It makes sense!

Clint.

 

[Tropical_Noobie]

Day 1:

Time: 2200 Date:6th May 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.0 ppm

Day 2:

Time: 2200 Date:7th May 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.0 ppm

pH: "off the scale"

pH high: 8.00 ppm

Day 3:

Time: 2200 Date:8th May 2010

Temp: 84F/29C

Ammonia: 4.0 ppm

pH: "off the scale"

pH high: 8.00 ppm