Live Bacteria

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

i just removed the both cartrages all together and stuffed the space full of sponge im hoping this will work its only a 5 gal so this filter should be ok because it will probally only house one dwarf puffer later down the line

zeolite removes ammonia

but now ive seeded this from a mature canister it should be ok

right?



oh and if i dont use the zeolite then ive got less that need replacing

 

[rabbut]

It's the cartrige with the white-cream and black granuals in it

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

It's the cartrige with the white-cream and black granuals in it

i took the whole cartridges out and used filter sponge instead and added mature media and filter floss to the intake

 

[waterdrop]

And for CJ, I think its important to get this Zeolite out of his Stingray because not only is it going to be inhibiting the bacteria from developing in the new Stingray itself, but its also going to be starving the bacteria in his existing filter in the coldwater tank he is now running the Stingray in to get it cycled! Am I right CJ?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[MHunt]

Would it not be the case that the zeolite will break down what ammonia it can leaving less for the bacteria to handle, yes the bacteria colony will be smaller than in a normal filter, but over time as the zeolite looses it's effectiveness the bacteria will take over as more ammonia is made available to it?

 

[fatheadminnow]

Zeolite is almost the same as Carbon, therefore, it will lose it effectiveness in "X" amount of time.

It is not really necessary to use Zeolite, unless you want to get out meds/discoloration/odors, etc....

So I would do what was suggested and take the Zeolite out, and replace it with either a foam/sponge insert, or some kind of media that supports the bacteria efficiently like ceramics etc...

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Would it not be the case that the zeolite will break down what ammonia it can leaving less for the bacteria to handle, yes the bacteria colony will be smaller than in a normal filter, but over time as the zeolite looses it's effectiveness the bacteria will take over as more ammonia is made available to it?

Interesting thought, I'm sure nobody has really ever been very methodical about testing. I think the concern might be indeed what FHM just mentioned, that Zeolite may not gradually lose its effectiveness but instead fill up like a bucket and suddenly overflow when its reached its limit, so in this case it would suddenly allow an amount of ammonia to be left in the water that the A-Bac colony would not be large enough to handle. And I think what's worse is that zeolite has a pretty good capacity for ammonia, so the moment of reaching the "full point" might be a ways down the road when the aquarist has forgotten about it and may certainly not be testing a watching as closely as needed.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

I have worked with ion exchange systems for cleaning up water in industrial settings and can tell you what the continuous samples on those systems show. When the ion exchange media is new or newly regenerated, the ion exchange is almost perfect and nothing gets through. When the ion exchange capability is 95% used up, it still does an excellent job and nothing gets through. At 99% used up it starts looking a little less effective but a crude test kit like we use for an aquarium would say it is still like brand new. The last percent or two, the output goes from perfect removal to no removal. To put things into perspective, we use the same media for months and in the last few hours the output goes from just fine, almost perfect ion removal to having no effect at all on what goes in. We call it a break through because it acts like there is suddenly a hole in the ion exchange media where there is no treatment going on. It might as well not be there any more. It is the reason that, in industrial settings, the process is constantly monitored by automatic equipment. By constant monitoring, we are able to avoid the disaster that a useless ion exchange would cause. We remove that ion exchanger from service and place a different one in service as soon as any degradation in performance is detected to continue the process while the used up one is either replaced or regenerated. The regeneration process uses strong acids and bases and is not something I ever want to do in my home.
My opinion is that the catastrophic stop in exchange capability is nothing I want my fish to experience. Until the ion exchange capability is used up, there will be no ammonia for the bacteria to use for growth.

 

[waterdrop]

Well -that- pretty much answers the question!

(Would it be safe to say you don't think Zeolite is a good thing in our filters OM47? )

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Dave Spencer]

(Would it be safe to say you don't think Zeolite is a good thing in our filters OM47? )
~~waterdrop~~

Oooooh!.....let`s be careful with the sweeping statements, gents. You know there are plant heads lurking.

Dave.

 

[Dave Spencer]

Would it not be the case that the zeolite will break down what ammonia it can leaving less for the bacteria to handle, yes the bacteria colony will be smaller than in a normal filter, but over time as the zeolite looses it's effectiveness the bacteria will take over as more ammonia is made available to it?

Spot on, although I don`t think it actually breaks the ammonia down. It has a large surface area that will be home to a nice bacteria colony when it becomes exhausted.

It is also a very handy weapon in combatting algae, because it greatly reduces the ammonia that will trigger it. Zeo sand is very popular in planted tanks in the US.

Dave.

 

[MHunt]

Would it not be the case that the zeolite will break down what ammonia it can leaving less for the bacteria to handle, yes the bacteria colony will be smaller than in a normal filter, but over time as the zeolite looses it's effectiveness the bacteria will take over as more ammonia is made available to it?

Spot on, although I don`t think it actually breaks the ammonia down. It has a large surface area that will be home to a nice bacteria colony when it becomes exhausted.

It is also a very handy weapon in combatting algae, because it greatly reduces the ammonia that will trigger it. Zeo sand is very popular in planted tanks in the US.

Dave.

Perhaps by capturing the ammonia and removing it from the water, is it still made available to bacteria that may colonise the surface of the zeolite? If not then you may well have ammonia loaded zeolite that like carbon may allow some of the material that has been absorbed (or adsorbed) to return to the water?

 

[CeeJayy]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately, i cant bare seeing the filter in my coldwater tank. I was going out yesterday morning and got up at 6am to see all my WCMM's WHITE and my butterfly plec WHITE also (both seemed albino!, the WCMMs had red spots on their gills and so did the butterfly plec) i was scared that by the time i got home from Thorpe Park my fish would be dead, so i unplugged the filter and put it back in the empty tank.

In regards to the zeolite cartridges, im going to take them out and replace them with Filter wool. Thats the best i can do atm. However im going to let my empty tank run for a couple of weeks (Useless, i know!).

 

[Dave Spencer]

Perhaps by capturing the ammonia and removing it from the water, is it still made available to bacteria that may colonise the surface of the zeolite?

My guess would be this, too.

If not then you may well have ammonia loaded zeolite that like carbon may allow some of the material that has been absorbed (or adsorbed) to return to the water?

I have never experienced any ammonia being released back in to the water, which strengthens my belief further that Zeolite makes the ammonia unavailable to the algae, but still available to the bacteria. WIN! WIN!

Personally, I think it is a great product, and very useful as part of a larger group of steps taken in starting planted tanks that never see any algae to speak of, and at the point where they are most susceptible. I don`t even get the brown diatoms anymore.

Dave.

 

[TigerIssey]

I used bactinettes myself on freshwater with success after a filter accident.

I do have all the information to assess which bacteria are included and the rationale behind them. However due to being housebound and printer cartridge running out (just don't seem to get round to replacing it) I have not assessed all this info yet. It is something I plan to do (Biomedical Scientist in Microbology Labaroratory).

What does concern me more is where have you seen the bactinettes. There were two suppliers by me, however both suppliers no longer carry stock which I am presuming is due to what Waterdrop said where the company stopped producing it.

Even live bacteria stored in a refridgerator will have a shelf life. For longer periods of storage freezing is usually recommended therefore if anywhere does still have stock, I would check the expiry date as the bacteria are probably no longer viable.

Andywg provided a link not long ago to the company that are now producing the original biospira under a different name (the scientist left marineland when tetra took it over)
here is that link.

Dr Tims One and Only

Years ago I did import Biospira from the USA it came with a cold pack and swiftly cleared customs. The bacteria were still viable and it cycled my tank I was setting up (had not had fish for a while) it did this very quickly..
It may be worth searching for a stockist if anyone actually wants to try this stuff, and checking if they will export to the UK.