Lil Help And A Thank You.

[mr2essions]

Hi all, and i just wanted to say how helpful this sit ehas been within just 5 mins of me looking around, i however have a few questions that im sure to most of you are general knowlage however i just wanted to be sure.

This weekend i purchased a Biorb 30l tank with heaters etc, ive always had goldfish however wanted to go back to my childhood of having tropical so hence the new purchase, ive settup the tank and added water / clorine removal powder etc. ive yet to do the 2 test kits i have however i wasnt sure when to do these IE how long after filling the tank up etc. im thinking of buying my 1st fish on wed / thursday and just wanted to make sure about the temp of the water, in the book i have it says nothing about temp and from what ive read is 27c about right (i have a 50w heater)? also what leverage do i have on this ovbiously you stick your heating on etc it will warm up etc or should the thermostat sort that? also regarding the light is this for show or does it need to be on all the time? as i know with the biorb you can buy the LED upgrade which simulated daylight / dark etc and wasnt sure if that was for show or needed etc? also one last thing is the book states i should buy 1 fish for the 1st 4 weeks, is this the same if i say wanted to buy 4/5 small fish ie the half ince ones ( ingnore my ignorence to names lol ).

any help would be great.

thanks

scott.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hiya scott, your certainly in the right place for starters, we will give you all the help we can.

there's a few links i'd direct you to for starters, you should read up about cycling the tank. the method in the instruction booklet is basically describing a cycle with fish, this is actually quite dangerous to the fish and can kill them, in recent years a fairly new techniquie called fishless cycling has been developed which poses no risk to the fish. if you read the links in my sig 'what's cycling' and 'fishless cycling' this should give you some good info on making te tank safe before you put fish in.

the heater i would expect to be on a thermostat and therefore just turn on/off as need be. just monitor how well it's sticking to the set temp over the next few days, unfortunately heaters can be a little unreliable so just get a thermometer and keep an eye on things. the temp you need depends on the fish you want to keep, they have different preferences, so chooose your fish first.

the fish don't actually need any light and will be calmer in the dark, the lighting is just for your viewing or if you decide to get live plants they will need lighting. so just set the timer to whenever you are likely to be home and looking at the tank. if you've no live plants in i'd advise around 6hrs per day lighting. it's not an exact science though and thinks like any natural sunlight hitting the tank will affect how long they need to be on for, so you may just have to play with this until it's right.

 

[mr2essions]

Brilliant, thats for the help and very sharp reply, im going to go to a shop today and pick out some types i like, with regards to your sugestion of getting the temp right for the fish im guessing that i cant mix up the fish to much then if one type likes it colder than another. ive started adding food to the tank as i read this online ( with no fish ) could you advised how long before adding water / cloride stuff / adding food it should be before i run my test kits? also the thermom i have is a stick type ( like from from the docs only smaller ) would i be better buying a digital one? also how long should i be looking to wait forbore adding my 1st fish? thanks. scott.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

stick type thermometer is fine.

adding fish food is one method of fishless cycling, however it's not very accurate, and it certainly won't be finished in a couple of days, have a good look through the links on cycling. you'll most likely be testing every day for a couple of weeks until it's ready for fish, can start testing as soon as you like, some people wait a few days before testing as there's unlikely to be any significant changes.

have a look at the link in my sig 'how to work out stocking lists' which should give you more info on working out which fish are compatible and suitable for your tank. also look at the 'fish suitable for a 10gal tank' as your tank is just a little smaller than this so most suggestions will apply.

 

[mr2essions]

Brilliant, cheers chap and ill look into it when i go to the shop aswell today and let you know how it goes

thanks all!

 

[mr2essions]

Hi one last thing, i went to a shop an hour ago for some person to person question time the lady advised me it will take about 4 weeks to get the water right for my 1st fish is this right? Seems along time? She explained if i check the water with a tester today it would be yellow (fine) then in about a week it will go red (bad) then about another week it will settle back to yellow? Is this right then im guessing it seemed sim info to what your link had. Also do i add anything other than the odd bit of food and keeping the heater on to make the bacteria grow that lil faster? Should i have added anything other than the dichloride liquid?

Cheers

Scott.

PS anyone know the type of fish that is the same as NEMO from the movie, they had them in the shop but noone around to ask at the time and no label. Lol Disney question eh.. tut.. What next..

Cheers peoples.


Sorry also im guesing the chorine stuff is really names - ammonia. or am i getting this mixed up?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yes she's right, what's she's referring to is the ammonia spike. if you test straight away there will be no ammonia in the tank because there's no source of it. you add fish food or pure ammonia then the ammonia level will go up, then when the filter bacteria develop it will drop back down.

her explanation does seem a little simplistic but she's got the right idea at least. unfortunately pet shop wages are pretty low, most of the time they can't actually afford to pay people with enough skills or expereince to give full advice, obviously there are exceptions but don't expect every saturday boy in the fish store to be an expert, chances are he isn't. you've a good resource here, 20,000 or so members who can all share their skills and experience. make good use of it and you'll be fine.

have a full read of the fishless cycling thread and i'd start doing a proper cycle adding pure ammonia instead of fish food, it'll be much mroe accurate.

just need to add dechlorinator, start adding ammonia and your away. not much too it really.

lol, yeah the age old disney question, nemo (and all the other fish from the film) are saltwater and need a specialist set up, here's some info in what is really involved in keeping nemo http/www.fishforums.net/My-Very-Own-Nemo-t31715.html

 

[fourthtimelucky]

Hello & welcome, you're definitely in the right place Scott! I got my first tank a couple of months ago and everyone on this forum is very helpful.

You should read Miss Wiggles thread on cycling - it tells you exactly what to do.

The lady at the fish shop was right - if you do a fishless cycle it will probably take you around a month unless you manage to find someone who lives near you who can give you some "mature" filter media (a sponge or even some gravel from their tank that has a load of good bacteria already) in which case it will be much quicker. I know it seems a long time but you can spend the four weeks or so planting / decorating and doing some research on the fis you want to get -- and when it is cycled you get to put your fish in there and enjoy them, rather than watching them suffer and possibly even die as you spend weeks and weeks frantically changing water and trying to nurse them through it!

Plus, when your cycle is complete you can put all your fish in at once, not one by one -- although bear in mind that 30l is fairly small and you need to plan your stocking carefully.

As Miss Wiggles article will explain, you should use liquid ammonia for your fishless cycle. I didn't find any shops selling this until I'd already started my fishless cycle (apparently homebase has it though) so I used fish food as you are doing. If you tie it up in sections of old tights/stockings then it stops your gravel getting filthy. I put in about two pinches a day (more than I was planning on feeding to my fish). You need to put food in every day (not just the odd bit) or the bacteria could die off and you're back to square one. But if you get hold of some liquid ammonia everything will be much easier (and cleaner).

Get a proper liquid drop test kit that will test for Ammonia, NitrIte, NitrAte and PH. They are better than strips, plus you get to pretend you're a mad scientist playing around with all the funny-coloured test tubes. Mwah ha ha!!!

Nemo was a clown fish, he is a marine not a freshwater tropical and so you can't put him in your biorb! They are adorable though, right? Top of my list if I ever got into the salties.

Whoops! Obviously typing at the same time there! Listen to Miss Wiggles. She knows EVERYTHING!!!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Whoops! Obviously typing at the same time there! Listen to Miss Wiggles. She knows EVERYTHING!!!

lol, far from the truth but thankyou anyway

 

[mr2essions]

Ha thanks peoples. think im getting this muddles up but the bacteria will make the ammonia levels go higher or lower? so is adding pure ammonia making the test value go yellow or red? so im adding it untill i get red then stop adding it untill gos yellow?

im gonna get some ammonia tonight and stop feeding it, or can i feed AND add ammonia?

Cheers.

Scott. - Shame about nemo.. they looked so cool lol

 

[Gremily]

Read the fishless cycling thread!

 

[JezzaBeadle]

Hi,

Add ammonia until the test value is about 5ppm. So yes, you want it to be quite high on whatever scale you have with your test kit. Test the ammonia level daily and eventually it will start going down. This will probably take quite a while, so you'll have to be patient! When the ammonia level reaches 0ppm, add more ammonia to boost it back up to 5ppm. Those instructions will be continued on any fishless cycling thread! I think there are a few, so they shouldn't be hard to find. I know it will probably seem like a long time, and you'll desperately want to get fish asap, but you really do need to consider the fish, it is definitely better for them!

 

[Chubbywubs]

You mentioned LCD lights, im just wondering, ive never had lights in my any of my previous tanks, does it bring any benefits to someone who doesnt have real plants in the tank?

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

A few tips on "speeding up the cycle"...

1) Most products like "cycle" are quite useless, but there are a few products on the market that have been successful...notably "Bio-Spira" (U.S.), and "Bactinettes" (U.K...have heard more mixed reviews on this product however). Most chain stores will not sell these because they have to refrigerated constantly, but you can mail order them or some smaller stores may have it if you ask.

2) As recommended before you can try to find a friend (or someone in a local aquarist club) to donate some filter media for you. When you "cycle a tank", you are actually cycling the filter as this is where the beneficial bacteria grows. There is a set growth rate for bacteria, which is why it can take quite a while for a large enough colony to grow in your own filter. Adding filter media that already has live bacteria in it obviously boosts the numbers of them...allowing for faster population growth.

3) Nitrifying bacteria are hungry little things! Don't let them go for more than 24 hours without a food source or they may start to die off (and therefore slowing down the cycling process). This is why it's important to keep testing the water.

4) Plants. Plants will already have some helpful bacteria hitchhiking on them. Plants also absorb Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates for food. There are techniques of safely adding fish to an uncycled HEAVILY planted tank (the tank still cycles, but does so "silently" since the plants act as the bio filter until the bacteria population becomes established). I do NOT recommend this technique for beginners though.

If you don't have live plants the lights are purely for show purposes, and if you do not have plants remember that the longer you leave your aquarium lights on, the higher the risk of algae blooms.

 

[vinylman]

Did I imagine it, or have I just read about a LFS employee who actually admits the fishless cycling method exists?. I'm going for a sit down.