Ive Almost Had Enough

[Akasha72]

Hi phoenix, I've just read this from the beginning and something is jumping out at me. Are you using API master kit? You mention you are using prime - which I understand is fantastic stuff (I don't use it myself, I use stresscoat) but I read on a thread - I think started by Kissfn - that prime and API test kits don't mix, something to do with stalagtites ...

It's just a thought, but if that is the case you may be getting false readings.

I've been in your position and I know how frustrating it is. I got so fed up of changing buckets of water that one day I just burst into tears. I got some advice from my lfs (as I'd popped in for something) and they suggested that I didn't feed for 3 days and left the water alone. In 3 days my tank went from the same position as yours to cycled.

I understand that you are worried about your fish but with a low PH the ammonia is actually Ammonium and not as harmful (again, read it on here somewhere) so it could be worth a try - just keep a close eye on the fishes behaviour.

It could also be worth looking up posts by Kissfn and seeing if you can find the thread I'm remembering.

Good luck with it

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Hi phoenix, I've just read this from the beginning and something is jumping out at me. Are you using API master kit? You mention you are using prime - which I understand is fantastic stuff (I don't use it myself, I use stresscoat) but I read on a thread - I think started by Kissfn - that prime and API test kits don't mix, something to do with stalagtites ...

It's just a thought, but if that is the case you may be getting false readings.

Let's clear the confusion up a bit.

Using Prime (or any other ammonia detoxifying dechlorinator) to dechlorinate your water does not cause a 'false' reading with any Salicylate based ammonia test kit, such as the API one.

What happens is that any ammonia in the water that is normally bound up safely by Prime is released back into the water when the ammonia test is done and so you get a correct ammonia reading. So if there was 1ppm ammonia before the addition of Prime there will be 1ppm when tested after the addition of Prime.

The confusion arises because people expect that having used the ammonia-detoxifying dechlorinator that they will not then see any ammonia when they test for it, but they do, and hence the confusion.

I understand that you are worried about your fish but with a low PH the ammonia is actually Ammonium and not as harmful (again, read it on here somewhere) so it could be worth a try - just keep a close eye on the fishes behaviour.

True, however, if the pH should rise at any point that relatively harmless ammonium turns into very harmful ammonia, so having a low pH should never be an excuse to allow total ammonia (as indicated by our test kits) to reach a high level.

 

[phoenixgsd]

Mate, what the hell are you doing adding ammonia to the tank if you have fish in there!

im not..... this thread 'was' about my fish in cycle, but it was suggested i took out one of the filters and put into a bucket and start a fishless cycle with that one, hence the trouble im having with that one in the bucket, my fish in cycle is now doing very well, maybe i should have started and separate thread to avoid this confusion

 

[Akasha72]

Hey Prime, I was trying to help. Sorry if I caused confusion

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Hey Prime, I was trying to help. Sorry if I caused confusion

I didn't think you were trying to do anything other than trying to help.

This 'Prime causing false readings' thing comes up time after time (on all the forums) and I thought I'd put the record straight as people will read this thread long after it's finished.

Stick around and I guarantee it'll come up again and you'll be able to tell 'em straight next time.

 

[phoenixgsd]

and im sorry i confused you too, just to clarify its my filter in the bucket doing a fishless cycle im having these problems with, i tested today, ammonia 2ppm and nitrite and nitrate 0ppm

 

[Tizer]

i rememer when i cycled a 30 litre tank, all the ammonia i needed was a tiny drop, nearly a tear drop amount for it to register green. I'd then leave it until it was yellow, then dose it again. did that for a few weeks, then started to test nitrite too, ammonia would be yellow, while nitrite a slight purple. did another drop every other day for two weeks, didnt bother testing until 3 weeks later while i did a tear drop of ammonia every other day during the whole process. took 5 weeks to cycle.

 

[KISSfn]

Hi phoenix, I've just read this from the beginning and something is jumping out at me. Are you using API master kit? You mention you are using prime - which I understand is fantastic stuff (I don't use it myself, I use stresscoat) but I read on a thread - I think started by Kissfn - that prime and API test kits don't mix, something to do with stalagtites ...

It's just a thought, but if that is the case you may be getting false readings.

Let's clear the confusion up a bit.

Using Prime (or any other ammonia detoxifying dechlorinator) to dechlorinate your water does not cause a 'false' reading with any Salicylate based ammonia test kit, such as the API one.

What happens is that any ammonia in the water that is normally bound up safely by Prime is released back into the water when the ammonia test is done and so you get a correct ammonia reading. So if there was 1ppm ammonia before the addition of Prime there will be 1ppm when tested after the addition of Prime.

The confusion arises because people expect that having used the ammonia-detoxifying dechlorinator that they will not then see any ammonia when they test for it, but they do, and hence the confusion.

Let's clear it up further. From Seachem Prime's website: " A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime®), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away." API is salicylate based. Akasha is correct.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Hi phoenix, I've just read this from the beginning and something is jumping out at me. Are you using API master kit? You mention you are using prime - which I understand is fantastic stuff (I don't use it myself, I use stresscoat) but I read on a thread - I think started by Kissfn - that prime and API test kits don't mix, something to do with stalagtites ...

It's just a thought, but if that is the case you may be getting false readings.

Let's clear the confusion up a bit.

Using Prime (or any other ammonia detoxifying dechlorinator) to dechlorinate your water does not cause a 'false' reading with any Salicylate based ammonia test kit, such as the API one.

What happens is that any ammonia in the water that is normally bound up safely by Prime is released back into the water when the ammonia test is done and so you get a correct ammonia reading. So if there was 1ppm ammonia before the addition of Prime there will be 1ppm when tested after the addition of Prime.

The confusion arises because people expect that having used the ammonia-detoxifying dechlorinator that they will not then see any ammonia when they test for it, but they do, and hence the confusion.

Let's clear it up further. From Seachem Prime's website: " A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime®), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away." API is salicylate based. Akasha is correct.

No, all you've done is confuse matters again. There are two (at least) inaccuracies in that statement from Seachem. My original explanation is correct.

I'll leave you to find out and then come back and explain why.

 

[phoenixgsd]

i rememer when i cycled a 30 litre tank, all the ammonia i needed was a tiny drop, nearly a tear drop amount for it to register green.

this is where i went wrong, i overdid it at the start so have emptied it and started again, i do have a tendency for putting a extra bit for luck in things

 

[KISSfn]

Hi phoenix, I've just read this from the beginning and something is jumping out at me. Are you using API master kit? You mention you are using prime - which I understand is fantastic stuff (I don't use it myself, I use stresscoat) but I read on a thread - I think started by Kissfn - that prime and API test kits don't mix, something to do with stalagtites ...

It's just a thought, but if that is the case you may be getting false readings.

Let's clear the confusion up a bit.

Using Prime (or any other ammonia detoxifying dechlorinator) to dechlorinate your water does not cause a 'false' reading with any Salicylate based ammonia test kit, such as the API one.

What happens is that any ammonia in the water that is normally bound up safely by Prime is released back into the water when the ammonia test is done and so you get a correct ammonia reading. So if there was 1ppm ammonia before the addition of Prime there will be 1ppm when tested after the addition of Prime.

The confusion arises because people expect that having used the ammonia-detoxifying dechlorinator that they will not then see any ammonia when they test for it, but they do, and hence the confusion.

Let's clear it up further. From Seachem Prime's website: " A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime®), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away." API is salicylate based. Akasha is correct.

No, all you've done is confuse matters again. There are two (at least) inaccuracies in that statement from Seachem. My original explanation is correct.

I'll leave you to find out and then come back and explain why.

I think the manufacturer of Prime knows their product better than you or I. They state a false reading of ammonia will occur unless the reading is taken right away. I've used API's cheap kit and got false high readings of ammonia.

 

[OldMan47]

Let's make this really clear. Forget everything else and read into this all that I tell you. The API reading is accurate but may not indicate the fish impact of ammonia and nitrites. The real value, in terms of cycling is exactly what your test reads, not some other oddball number. Although Prime and similar products make chemicals like ammonia and nitrite less toxic, it never actually removes any of either chemical. Instead it makes them less toxic to fish if you happen to have fish in your tank. If you are doing a fishless cycle, you can treat the results as absolutely accurate and will do just fine with your cycle. Prime converts ammonia to a less toxic form, it does not remove it. The bacteria you are using to convert ammonia to nitrites will act as if the reading is very accurate. Similarly it converts nitrites to less toxic versions but again the bacteria will not care. If you have fish doing a fish-in cycle, the Prime or similar product will make both chemicals less toxic but it is still up to you to do enough water changes to control your chemistry. The detox effect of products like Prime are very short lived.