How Things Have Changed.

[raptorrex]

He also diddnt understand why I had to buy an extra heater for heating water for tank changes!

No I don't understand that one either!?


Why???

lol, because the practice make no sense.

hot water from you house is fine. though there seems evidence that fish enjoy/benefit from cool/cold water changes. another fish-keeping wives tale, like Aquarium salt and Mature water.

 

[AlanTh]

I wouldn't dream of running . It doesn't really work. I have two powerhead pumps that work.

Fish poo goes straight into your internal canisters - how?

of course a under gravel filtration with an air pump works. i think what you mean to say is powerhead pumps work better.

I stand corrected. Although I wouldn't run a 100 Ltr + tank with air pumps.

 

[TC1976]

25% Water changes every Saturday/Sunday and water testing every Wed. works for me.

 

[AlanTh]

I am getting ready to add fish to my new tank now. Just a couple.

I am doing it the "old" way

I just wonder .....

Could it be that the modern way of fishkeeping is because you all seem to be using small internal/external filters? They might be more delicate than three inches of gravel, and two strong powerhead pumps? I don't really like the look of filters in a tank.

We will see what happens ..

 

[fish481]

if you kept them for 34 years then you know the old way is the best way lol.

 

[fish481]

I think that heating up the water would actually decrease your chances of breeding fish. Many fish begin spawning after a nice rain. Rain is a lot cooler than the water in the pond or stream that they live in. The temp change can cause the fish to start breeding. If anything, I would avoid warm water changes just to improve my chances of breeding a certain fish. I have always noticed that my fish like to swim under the current of cold water that I put in my tanks. They are quite funny! I almost never test my water. Why? Because I know what works. If i feed the same amount, every week, and do the same water change every week, then my water should be the same, every week. So, why check my stats? It's a waste to me. Now, if I am setting up a tank, then I can understand testing water to see ammonia levels and what not. I used to use UGF's and then we got our first power filter. The tank was drastically clearer the next day after installing it!

kribensis12 well you dont need to worry about your livebarers/ warm water changes as no affect and is 100% safe

 

[fish481]

Lol, seriously ppl use an extra heater to heat new water?! Never done that. Can't imagine not using de-chlorinator in the tanks but I also suspect there are far more chemicals in our tap water now than there was way back (#41#### those water companies) and maybe that is partially why fish keeping was successful. I also suspect that ignorance sometimes worked favourably as it weeded out weaker fish and left stronger, hardier fish which were bred from. Some fish nowadays are treating with so much care that the slightest wrong move could prove fatal.....I have to consider that if a fish is that sensetive surely it has been caused by over-breeding or in-breeding. If not, then it should be left in it's natural habitat and not tortured in unknowing aquarists aquariums. Maybe we should be expected to take exams for some fish and reach 'levels' before being allowed to keep certain fish....bit like a computer game!
Seriosuly though, I agree that the internet has become a place full of information, allowing modern fish-keepers access to knowledge previously reserved for specialists. It has also led to plenty of conflicting information, some of which one group of aquarists swear by and will flame you for thinking otherwise, whilst another group will flame you for not believing something entirely different!
Blimey. I reckon I could rant on forever, lol. Find the happy medium, know your fish, only buy from someone you trust and filter with whatever system you prefer. If it works, who cares if someone else hates that system?!
Ok, I'll shut up now.
P.

Miss Dib Dabs if a fish is that sensetive it as nothing to with over-breeding or in-breeding.
why fish keeping was successfulin them days we all spent more time with are fish and less time on the computer lol.

 

[kribensis12]

Inbreeding has a lot to do with how sensitive a fish is. If a fish has bad genes because it is so inbred, it will be a weaker fish. More subsceptable to diseases and stress. That is why people like to throw either wild stock into a line, or they buy a fish from a far away supplier to increase genetic diversity. Have you seen the guppies now a days? Yep. Inbreeding for sure. I can't keep guppies alive for anything.

 

[fish481]

i have had success in keeping and breeding many strains of guppy's i have kept all sorts including pet shop ones.

 

[Curiosity101]

I am doing it the "old" way

That's called fish-in cycling. Not 'the old way', it's only the old way cause previously fish in cycling was the only well known method.

I just wonder .....

Could it be that the modern way of fishkeeping is because you all seem to be using small internal/external filters? They might be more delicate than three inches of gravel, and two strong powerhead pumps? I don't really like the look of filters in a tank.

Has nothing to do with the filters... so long as you have enough filter media to have space for a large enough bacterial colony then it has nothing to do with anything.
We recommend fishless cycles as it make significantly more sense than fish-in. Fish-in almost always requires massive daily water changes and twice daily testing for the first few weeks. It also exposes the fish to ammonia and nitrite un neccesarily.

Weekly water changes are done because if you look at the statistics they show that weekly water changes = best results. Ie. fish spawn, live longer, show brighter colours, don't get ill as often.

The 'old way' is not the best way. The best way, regardless of when it was 'developed' is the one that firstly has the greatest success rates, and then following that one that also suits the fish keeper.
No one should stick to 'old ways' because they can't move with the times, but so long as the equipment is still capable (which it certainly should be... although where you managed to find an under gravel filter I don't know...) , then who cares.
I certainly don't envy you doing a fish in cycle though.

 

[kaivalagi]

On the heating of replacement water, I have to admit I used to use a spare heater to do that in buckets (as well as boiling the kettle, otherwise I'd be waiting for ages). I have an old style copper boiler which was a worry for hot water use from the tap...The thermostat on the heater told me when the temp was right even if the heater didn't really make a difference quick enough. Admittedly I did that when I first started the hobby and everything had to be spot on...now I know better A drop in tank temp by a few degrees is a good thing now and then IMHO.

Once I had bought a copper test kit and tested my hot water from the tap (zero copper) I then started using the hot tap for water changes. I tested the tank water several times over (zero copper) and finally switched to using a syphon system with hot and cold taps, my hands where the thermostat and dechlorinator goes into the tank with the water, big water changes are now a breeze

My DIY syphon (no mixer taps in my house):

 

[ChilliPepper]

an extra heater for water changes! I just use the hot tap For any trace metals, a good dechlor will get rid of that. Make sure it says it on the label, but most get rid of chlorine, chloramine and neutralise any metals.
I am not strict on the temperature going back into the tank as long as it isn't lower than 2c. I feel that in nature when it rains, the water is going to cool down somewhat, so why should it be any different for aquarium fish? Mine enjoy it after a waterchange, must be something in it.

In 'the old days' I'm not sure as much research was carried out into fish's health/environment/etc as it is now. If it were, then it certainly wasn't as readily available as nowadays with the Internet. People are more aware of how their actions and the tank environment can affect their fish. We can influence them so that they can grow bigger, stronger and live longer. They can be happier.

I have never had the 'pleasure' of using an undergravel filter, but they sound ghastly. Honestly there is nothing easier than an external filter. Half hour on Google will show you how many people use them to great effect, and how much easier and more practical they are.

I think to disregard new methods, even faced with copious evidence that these new methods work better, and to continue with old methods is pure arrogance. However there are plenty of people like you all around the world, and we won't change your mind. For example everyone is aware of the dangers of smoking now, but people still continue to do it. Fishless cycling is going to be better for your fish than fish-in cycling (I don't like the idea of daily water changes either, I think they must be stressful for the fish), but people will still cycle their filters with poor old Mollies or whatever, even though they know there are more humane ways.

Yes, things have moved on. For good reason

 

[kaivalagi]

an extra heater for water changes! I just use the hot tap For any trace metals, a good dechlor will get rid of that. Make sure it says it on the label, but most get rid of chlorine, chloramine and neutralise any metals.

That is not an established fact, I had this debate with Waterdrop when I was wanting to setup a syphon based water change due to having a old copper boiler...

I wanted to test the theory (having a copper test kit) but hot tap water had zero copper in it before any treatment so I went straight ahead with the hose

 

[ChilliPepper]

an extra heater for water changes! I just use the hot tap For any trace metals, a good dechlor will get rid of that. Make sure it says it on the label, but most get rid of chlorine, chloramine and neutralise any metals.

That is not an established fact, I had this debate with Waterdrop when I was wanting to setup a syphon based water change due to having a old copper boiler...

I wanted to test the theory (having a copper test kit) but hot tap water had zero copper in it before any treatment so I went straight ahead with the hose

A good dechlor will neutralise any metals, but to be fair most hot taps don't have any anyway

 

[kaivalagi]

A good dechlor will neutralise any metals, but to be fair most hot taps don't have any anyway

Maybe, here's the discussion I had: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/328955-kettle-scales/page__view__findpost__p__2730860

I use Seachem Prime BTW, wouldn't use anything else anymore