High Ammonia Please Help! Sos

[FurFinFeathers]

I started up my 10 gallon freshwater tank by waiting 3 days before i got any fish in January and it is now March. Ever since adding fish, my ammonia levels have always been dangerously high, staying mostly at the range of 6.0. We have tried everything, from reduced feedings, to adding an air stone to daily water changes but have not been been able to lower it.

  We had 3 fish die

  and I'm scared more fish will die as well. I currently have 1 male pineapple swordtail, 1 mickey mouse platy, 6 zebra danios, and 2 peppered corydoras. A PetSmart employee recommended I emptey my entire tank and start over, but I'm not sure if it is the right thing to do.

  I really need some help on how to lower my ammonia levels. I have an AquaTech 5-15 filter, and my nitrate and nitrite levels are both 0, while my Ph is about 7.8.
 
What should I do? 
 
Thanks!!!!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Yes, you should empty the entire tank (of fish) and then let it cycle through the ammonia that is already there.  You are grossly overstocked with your tank, as well.  When a fully cycled 10 gallon tank is set-up, it can truly support very few fish.   There is a nice list of fish that you could consider for a 10 gallon tank here.
 
 
Have a read through the Beginner Resource Center, and read about the nitrogen cycle. 

 

[This Old Spouse]

If you can't empty the tank of fish for some reason, at least do about a 90% water change (leave just enough water for the fish to swim upright) and replace with temperature matched dechlorinated water. Get yourself some Seachem Prime to dechlorinate as it also neutralizes trace metals and such and is all-around the best. It might seem a bit expensive but you don't use very much with each change. 
 
You'll need to do at least a 50% water change daily until your filter cycles. This will help keep the ammonia levels down. At this point the fish are swimming around in their own waste, so you can see how important it is to keep the water clean.
 
See what you can do about getting some mature filter media, either from a friend who keeps fish or the LFS (local fish store). If you put this in your filter it will jump-start the cycling process and possibly even cycle it immediately. It's how I started up all my tanks after the first one was cycled.
 
If you use carbon in your filter, let us know. There's a better way.
 

 

[the_lock_man]

With ammonia levels that high, it is inhibiting the growth of the correct type of bacteria.
 
I agree more with TOS than Eagles on this one, I don't think emptying the tank is either right or practical.
 
I think, with the bio-load that you have in your tank currently, you need to be doing 90% water changes daily for a good few weeks, until you see both ammonia and nitrite consistently at 0ppm. Remember that nitrite is just as harmful as ammonia.
 
You tried daily water changes, but I would suspect that you weren't changing enough. I also suspect that you are showing consistently at 6ppm, because that's as high as the test will show, and actually, your ammonia level is far higher than that.
 
To help you, it's going to take a lot of work on your part.
 
Start off by doing a huge water change. As TOS says, take out as much of the water as you can, just leave enough for the fish to swim upright in. Replace with fresh dechlorinated water that is pretty close to the temperature that you took out.
 
Test again.
 
Keep doing this until the ammonia level comes down to under 0.25ppm. As I said, this might take a number of repeats, but your fish will be thankful.
 
Tomorrow, test again. Chances are you will see that ammonia has risen dangerously high again. Repeat the same procedure.
 
THe day after, test again. Chances are you will see that ammonia has risen dangerously high again. Repeat the same procedure.
 
And the day after that, test again. Chances are you will see that ammonia has risen dangerously high again. Repeat the same procedure.
 
As time goes on, you'll start to see readings for nitrite. The same thing applies.
 
As time goes further on, you'll eventually get to a day when you won't see a reading for either ammonia or nitrite. Don't bother changing water. But do test again next day. Chances are you will see that ammonia has risen dangerously high again. Repeat the same procedure.
 
When you can go a week without seeing ammonia or nitrite readings, your work is done, you have bacteria doing it all for you.

 

[This Old Spouse]

Exactly right as above, lock_man. The only thing I'd add is that once the ammonia and nitrites read 0, you should have a reading for nitrAtes somewhere around 10+ PPM or thereabouts. 

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The reason I suggest taking the fish back, besides the obvious danger to them from ammonia poisoning is that the stock is not appropriate for a ten gallon tank.  None of those fish are suitable.  The swordtail would be best in a 30 gallon, the platy and corydoras in at leat a 20 gallon, and the zebra danios, while small, are best suited to at least a 4 foot tank, but a 6 footer would be better given their nature.
 
 
So, while it isn't necessary to empty the tank of fish, it would make everything far easier, as this tank would be far better off in the long run with a smaller bioload, and much more suitable fish - like those in the link I provided.
 
Sure, the 90% water changes can cycle the tank, although it will take a long time given the volume of the tank and the bioload on it.  But, in the end, there will still be the wrong fish in that small tank.

 

[the_lock_man]

The reason I suggest taking the fish back, besides the obvious danger to them from ammonia poisoning is that the stock is not appropriate for a ten gallon tank.  None of those fish are suitable.  The swordtail would be best in a 30 gallon, the platy and corydoras in at leat a 20 gallon, and the zebra danios, while small, are best suited to at least a 4 foot tank, but a 6 footer would be better given their nature.
 
 
So, while it isn't necessary to empty the tank of fish, it would make everything far easier, as this tank would be far better off in the long run with a smaller bioload, and much more suitable fish - like those in the link I provided.
 
Sure, the 90% water changes can cycle the tank, although it will take a long time given the volume of the tank and the bioload on it.  But, in the end, there will still be the wrong fish in that small tank.

 
Agreed on that, for sure.
 
The reason I disagreed with the strategy is that until the ammonia level is way way down, as you are aware, the a-bacs won't grow properly. And until the a-bacs grow, the ammonia won't drop. And I inferred from what you said that you meant place the fish in a temporary home, rather than taking them back to the LFS. I see more clearly what you meant from the 2nd post.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

You could also go to your local fish shop and see if you can buy mature media (the stuff in your filter, like filter floss, or a sponge), adding some mature media will help you bacteria colony jump start, the more media you can add the better.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The reason I suggest taking the fish back, besides the obvious danger to them from ammonia poisoning is that the stock is not appropriate for a ten gallon tank.  None of those fish are suitable.  The swordtail would be best in a 30 gallon, the platy and corydoras in at leat a 20 gallon, and the zebra danios, while small, are best suited to at least a 4 foot tank, but a 6 footer would be better given their nature.
 
 
So, while it isn't necessary to empty the tank of fish, it would make everything far easier, as this tank would be far better off in the long run with a smaller bioload, and much more suitable fish - like those in the link I provided.
 
Sure, the 90% water changes can cycle the tank, although it will take a long time given the volume of the tank and the bioload on it.  But, in the end, there will still be the wrong fish in that small tank.

 
Agreed on that, for sure.
 
The reason I disagreed with the strategy is that until the ammonia level is way way down, as you are aware, the a-bacs won't grow properly. And until the a-bacs grow, the ammonia won't drop. And I inferred from what you said that you meant place the fish in a temporary home, rather than taking them back to the LFS. I see more clearly what you meant from the 2nd post.

 
 
Sorry if my first explanation was unclear.  It was a bit late, and I was rather tired.  You are correct about needing the ammonia levels lower for the proper bacteria to be encouraged to grow.  Although, for a fishless cycle, it isn't far from the initial dose level.  A 50% water change would also make catching the fish easier as well and lower the ammonia to about 3ppm, which I consider to be ideal for a fishless cycle.

 

[the_lock_man]

 

The reason I suggest taking the fish back, besides the obvious danger to them from ammonia poisoning is that the stock is not appropriate for a ten gallon tank.  None of those fish are suitable.  The swordtail would be best in a 30 gallon, the platy and corydoras in at leat a 20 gallon, and the zebra danios, while small, are best suited to at least a 4 foot tank, but a 6 footer would be better given their nature.
 
 
So, while it isn't necessary to empty the tank of fish, it would make everything far easier, as this tank would be far better off in the long run with a smaller bioload, and much more suitable fish - like those in the link I provided.
 
Sure, the 90% water changes can cycle the tank, although it will take a long time given the volume of the tank and the bioload on it.  But, in the end, there will still be the wrong fish in that small tank.

 
Agreed on that, for sure.
 
The reason I disagreed with the strategy is that until the ammonia level is way way down, as you are aware, the a-bacs won't grow properly. And until the a-bacs grow, the ammonia won't drop. And I inferred from what you said that you meant place the fish in a temporary home, rather than taking them back to the LFS. I see more clearly what you meant from the 2nd post.

 
 
Sorry if my first explanation was unclear.  It was a bit late, and I was rather tired.  You are correct about needing the ammonia levels lower for the proper bacteria to be encouraged to grow.  Although, for a fishless cycle, it isn't far from the initial dose level.  A 50% water change would also make catching the fish easier as well and lower the ammonia to about 3ppm, which I consider to be ideal for a fishless cycle.

 
No probs, mate.
 
The OP's tests show a constant 6ppm, when they should be constantly increasing, which leads me to the conclusion that 6ppm is the highest that their test will show. My conclusion is that ammonia is somwhere in excess of 6ppm. Could be wrong, though.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

More than likely you are correct about that.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

If the ammonia reading is on an API test, it is not too high for the right bacteria. the greater danger is the nitrites that much ammonia is going to make. The danger point for ammonia and nitrite is 5 ppm ammonia-n, on an API kit that would read about  6.5 ppm. At that level is will start to inhibit the cycle but should not be killing the bacteria. You do not want to go any higher.
 
I would deal with the situation in a different fashion than most have suggested. All you need is a heater, a small air pump with an airstone or sponge filter or else a small hang on and one last key thing- a Rubbermaid container. All the fish can be parked in the container which will be warm and have O. This will not be cycled as it is a temporary home. Yes you have to do lots of water changes. Minimum is going to be 25% every other day and it may have to be more.  Then you can can full bore on a fishless cycle in the tank without any fear of harming the fish.
 
What are the advantages to using this method when possible? I am glad I asked.
1. The fish in the Rubbermaid will get better water than if they are left in the tank. You can hold the container almost at 0 ammonia.nitrite.nitrate via tthe same sort of water changes you would do in the tank.
2. Because the tank is now devoid of fish, you can complete the cycle a heck of a lot faster because you can have higher levels of ammonia etc. which in turn lets you cycle the that tank for a full fish load which gets the situation rectified much faster.
3. Even doing big water changes in the tank if the fish were left there, you still need ammonia and nitrite to complete the cycle. And so you must expose the fish to higher levels during a fish in cycle than you will parking them in clean water. In a fish in cycle you have to hold ammonia and nitrite at low levels with the fish in the tank for a lot longer to get it cycled, you run the danger of causing harm due to chronic low level exposure for an extended period. This is a different danger than short term more toxic exposure, but a danger none-the-less.
4. A proper fish in cycle should be done starting with way fewer fish and then they should be ramped up gradually. But there are already too many fish involved. Using the park while cycling method not only shortens the time frame but it also means all the fish go back in at once. See #2 above.
 
Of course it would be a lot easier to return the fish if possible and then go fishless. Good luck with.

 

[the_lock_man]

What are the advantages to using this method when possible? I am glad I asked.

 
*Snigger*
 
Interesting idea, there, Mr Amin.
 
Just to clarify, the heater and sponge filter are for use in the plastic container, so we are talking about investing in an additional heater to that used to heat the main tank to be cycled. Given that the plastic tub is only a few litres, water changes are piece of wossname.
 
My only concern there is that if the bioload in a 40l tank is sufficient to send ammonia off the scale, it will be 4 times as bad in a 10l (say) Rubbermaid, which would tend to suggest multiple water changes per day to control ammonia and nitrite?

 

[Mervin]

And don't use water from the hot tap, only the cold tap!

 

[lalo99]

Does your water contain chloramines as treatment? Check with your local water company to see how they are treating the tank. If you use a good water conditioner like Seachems Prime it will detoxify the ammonia. However you will still get an ammonia reading on the test kit. Prime just changes ammonia to a less toxic form. The ammonia is then eaten by the nitifying bacteria.