Green Goddess's First Fishless Cycle (240 Ltr)

[greengoddess]

Excellent, I'll give it 4ppm of ammonia tomorrow then. I will try and get my account validated so I can update the test results as that seems to be the tradition on here.

Many thanks Waterdrop, your help has been invaluable

 

[greengoddess]

Last night I added my first dose of ammonia. Surprisingly, my estimate of 3.2ml of .880 Ammonia was spot on. That took it to exactly 4ppm. Now it's a case of waiting and testing for ammonia daily I presume.

I also had an emergency yesterday. My prize fantail goldifsh looked very unhappy and I successfully diagnosed a swim bladder problem. I can confirm that the cooked shelled pea method works perfectly. He ate a couple of finely chopped peas and within an hour he was back to his old self again. Amazing! I'm starting to get the hang of this fishkeeping hobby. Amazing what you can learn in the space of 3 weeks!

 

[greengoddess]

Tonight's results: pH has risen to over 9. Ammonia has fallen very slightly (Is this normal?)

 

[waterdrop]

pH is a slight base, so if your pH is already high it will still raise it some more. There isn't much data on whether 9.0 is going to be very much off the upper optimal of 8.4, but I'd think it wouldn't be that far off optimal. As far as having ammonia drop a little, I'd just chalk that up to the many small things we see that don't have much explanation. I doubt you're seeing a bunch of bacteria already processing the ammonia - its more likely being absorbed a bit by some of your new media and after a bit the numbers will just sit there and not move.. but again, the whole reason these threads are half interesting is because everyone's cycle is so unpredictable!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

As WD said, ammonium hydroxide in a 10% solution is indeed a weak base. It can be used to raise pure water, not tap water, to at least 9.2 pH. The KH you are describing in your tank is a fairly good match to my tap water at around 11 degrees. It will be fine for cycling a new filter with no adjustments needed. Your pH is a bit high than my tap, mine only runs around 7.8. I am sure that WD will keep you on the right road to a successful cycle.

 

[greengoddess]

Thanks again both of you. I've managed to validate my account so I can now keep a log of the test results at the top of this topic (see above).

I added another 0.5ml of .880 Ammonia today because the test was reading at just 2.5ppm. Nitrite still zero as expected.

 

[waterdrop]

In future though, be aware that the fishless cycle process is to let the ammonia work its way all the way down to zero ppm (or if it seems to get stuck very close to zero then to consider it to be zero since it might just be a test interpretation issue) before you add more ammonia and even then you only add ammonia on your "add-hour" (the regular hour out of the 24 hour day that you've set as the time you will always add ammonia, if needed.) In the later stages of fishless cycling you also test at the 12 hour mark.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[greengoddess]

In future though, be aware that the fishless cycle process is to let the ammonia work its way all the way down to zero ppm (or if it seems to get stuck very close to zero then to consider it to be zero since it might just be a test interpretation issue) before you add more ammonia and even then you only add ammonia on your "add-hour" (the regular hour out of the 24 hour day that you've set as the time you will always add ammonia, if needed.) In the later stages of fishless cycling you also test at the 12 hour mark.

~~waterdrop~~

Oops!

OK, I must remember that. Silly me, I suppose I should have asked first.

 

[waterdrop]

I'm just mentioning it for the sake of helping you establish the habit, not because its any particular problem at this stage of fishless cycling by any means. The process could probably be compared to a lot of other practical biological or chemical processes or perhaps to a lot of things a good cook would learn: there are lots of aspects of it that are not critical but a few key ones that you want to learn to keep your eye on.

So, for instance, we like to start out making sure there's a good dose of ammonia there, like 3,4 or 5ppm or so but the only aspects of that that seem to matter are that we -not- have the concentration up at 7 or 8ppm (because that promotes a different species of bacteria than we want) and that we not down around trace, 1 or maybe 2ppm (because we're not sure if that might just allow it to slip to zero when we're not looking a slow our overall progress a little.)

We like to keep a nice warm temp (my favorite is 84F/29C, as written up in one of the other nearby threads I think but there's not much good data on specific temp numbers other than it obviously being warmer than a normal tropical tank.) We like to know where we stand relative to the ideal 8.0 to 8.4 pH even though we may no do anything to change pH unless some other things arise, as you know from your pretty extreme experience already with the soft scottish water.

We like to do things that help to control the overall nitrogen in the tank. Once the cycling process really gets underway we will be adding a lot of nitrogen on often a daily basis when we add ammonia (NH3) and of course the overall N amount will keep getting larger, whether its in the form of NH3, NO2 or NO3. So when the first phase is ending and the second phase is beginning (when ammonia is rapidly dropping each day and nitrite (NO2) is starting to spike as high as its test can show, we can drop back on the ammonia concentration from 5ppm to about 3ppm, to the extent we can detect this difference in our color matching when we do the test. This will be fine to string the A-Bacs along and of course the N-Bacs have got way more than enough to keep them busy but it will slightly lessen the overall N going in. Then when we move to the third phase (signified by the nitrite spike being over) we can ease the ammonia dosing concentration back up to 5ppm. We'll very definately want it up at 5ppm for the finish of the process where we qualify the biofilter.

The reason for sounding kind of regimented about the "add-hour" 24hour and 12 hour testing is not so much that the process needs it but that it really helps to allow your testing to make more sense when you are trying to interpret it. If you think in terms of a graph, you are creating little humps that change with time and you are then trying to "snapshop" them to learn something both about amount and about time and if the beginning is irregular then it confuses the issue.

~~waterdrop~~ (when my coffee's too hot I type a lot to get it to cool down )

 

[greengoddess]

Thanks Waterdrop,

Although I work in a lab, my chemistry knowledge is poor but I do get the basic idea of what you are saying. I assume that all I do now is wait for the ammonia to drop right down to almost zero. I have checked for nitirite a couple of times but there is nothing there yet. I believe this is normal and that no nitrite will start to appear until the ammonia drops. Makes sense I suppose.

Other than that, the tank seems fine and the water is still nice and clear. I must try and get a photo on here later this week.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, you're fine. The very first dosing of ammonia often doesn't drop for two weeks (which drives people crazy since they've just done a lot of work to buy the test kit and get all set up and do -their- part!) but when it drops is really quite unpredictable between a few days and even 3 weeks in a case or two. When nitrite starts to rise is slightly disconnected from when ammonia is dropping all the way but its generally around the same time. One way I try to think about it is that we certainly expect there to be a very small number of both types of bacteria in the tap water and so a very small amount (almost always undetectable) of ammonia will begin processing all the way through to nitrite and then to nitrate right from the beginning and there will always be a tiny amount of that going on. But there will be large imbalances which will cause our usual main observations, like: there won't be enough A-Bacs at first so ammonia won't process down to zero quickly.. then when that does start happening, there won't be enough N-Bacs so the nitrite spike will happen and all along the nitrate(NO3) and pH may be quite unpredictable because they will be going up and down due to a number of competing factors.

Your job is just to trust that the reliable recording of your test results in a clear manner will be eventually very useful to you and us. At first only ammonia need be watched maybe every other day and then once a day and pH once a week. Then when ammonia starts dropping you'll want to add in nitrite(NO2) as a daily test and maybe make pH more frequent. Eventually you will add in nitrate(NO3) tests maybe weekly and in the third phase you'll have to do the most tests because you'll want to know what's happing both 12 and 24 hours after you add ammonia.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[greengoddess]

Thanks Waterdrop,

I work 12 hour shifts so I won't be able to check the water at the same time every day as the cycle progresses. I'll just have to check it when I can.

I am quite prepared for the intial long wait for the ammonia drop, no sense in trying to rush nature. Better to take my time and get it right the first time rather than having to start all over again.

Last night the ammonia was 3ppm and I've updated the opening post at the start of this thread. I won't be adding another small dose of ammonia this time

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

 

[waterdrop]

With the testing, you may be able to get another family member involved. People can seem reluctant at first but if you are persistent and break it down with clear written instructions it can often work.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[greengoddess]

Yes, I thought of that. The only problem is... the only family member I have that will be available to do the testing is my wife. I love my wife dearly but when it comes to numbers she needs to take her shoes and socks off to count past 10... maths and charts are definitely not her forte. Ask her a question about Facebook or Eastenders and she'll gladly help out, but when it comes to anything that requires a dose of brain power she'll guess the answer wildly at first and then throw a tantrum if corrected. Bless her, I may be better asking one of my fantails for help

 

[greengoddess]

I forgot to check the ammonia level yesterday but today I checked it and it has dropped to zero! Nitrite has risen from zero and has gone off scale (>3.3 possibly 5.0). Surprisingly there is also a high nitrate reading. I wasn't expecting to find nitrate yet - is this normal? The nitrate is also right at the top of the scale at around 110 or greater. pH is very hard to test as the colour is hard to match. I am guessing at between 9-9.5.

I've just added another 3.7ml of ammonia to bring the level back up to around 4ppm