gourami problem

The April FOTM Contest Poll is open!
FishForums.net Fish of the Month
🏆 Click to vote! 🏆

kcalbat

Fish Fanatic
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
134
Reaction score
0
Location
Waller, Texas United States of America
Hi guys! I have a problem. Well I set up my 35 gallon and got a few fish, one dwarf blue gourami and two silver mollies.

Well after a while a female molly began to peck at the gourami's scales and now he has several bald spots where his beautiful scales used to be. So i put him in my 10 gallon hospital tank where a platy resided (his fins were torn, they are growing back nicely!) I have divided the 10 gallon tank with a divider because the platy wanted to peck at him. Well I do believe the gourami is rather stressed.

Ever since i put him in he's been floating at the top of the water almost completely on his side. He does swin around abit but not much. He is also excreting pale waste and unfortunately some of the pale waste has wrapped around his feelers somewhat.

what am i to do? could he have a disease or infection? will he effect my platy?

pH : 8.0 Ammonia: 0 ppm nitrites: 0 ppm nitrates: 10 temperature: 76 F

i put some aquarium salt in for the platy so the tank has salt
i also put stress coat in the tank when i put the gourami in

thanks for listening
 
Can you move the platy out now (you said it was healing well so if it is well enough, I would put it in the 35 gallon now so the gourami has the 10 to himself). But only if the 35 is already cycled (is it?).

Is the gourami still eating? Feed him a shelled pea or two. Crush it if necessary. If the poo is white and stringy, you will need to treat with an anti-internal parasite med.

Also, as he does sound rather stressed, get lots of fake/live plants - both floating and tall rooted varieties and put them in his tank. Include a ceramic pot as well. That may help calm him down. Also, it helps to dim the tank lights or to turn them off altogether if dimming them isn't an option. Cover the tank to keep outside disturbance to a minnimum. Also, check the temp. of the water - it should be at least 75-77 deg F.

The very fact that the molly managed to pick off scales suggests he was already ill or extremely stressed. Gouramies are incredibly quick when they want to be so it sounds like there was something seriously wrong with him. If you only just added him, it may be pH shock that started it and you didn't acclimatise him gradualy enough. He probably was already sick though - just the stress has had the effect of making him worse.

One more thing, don't feed him dry foods (not for the moment anyway) - try frozen daphnia. Live/frozen brine shrimp or bloodworms and supplement with greens such as blanched lettuce, cucumber, zuchinni and de-shelled peas.

Are there no other symptoms of disease BTW? No bloating, pineconing scales, loss of color, lack of an appetite etc?

I also suggest you do a large water change and decrease the amount of stresscoat and salt in the water just a little. Though they can be helpful, suddenly moving a fish from a tank that doesn't contain them when he is already stressed could cause more harm than good.
 
thank you so much for your reply!!!! I immediately moved the platy to the larger tank, but if the gourami had a disease could he have contaminated the platy? could he (the platy) get any of my other fish sick?

the reason i didnt want to move him yet is because i wanted his fins to heal completely. i suppose he'll be ok.

the bigger tank had salt in it too..i did it for the mollies and platy, and i read that a little aquarium salt would not harm the gourami. the only thing the gourami was introduced to was a higher temperature of about 76 or 77 and stress coat.

i will add more plants soon. and he is trying to eat but unfortunately he cant seem to get the food in his mouth.

he had no other symptoms except a loss of scales, difficulty eating, and floating slightly on his side.

tommorow i will vacuum the gravel and do a water change. i will have to buy some live food and veggies. the only thing we have around here are frozen carrots and fresh picked green beans.

thank you so much!!!
 
Well your plan sounds good. If it doesn't have an effect, treat for internal parasites (you said white/stringy poo right?).

The platy should not be able to transfer any diseases as the gourami either doesn't have a contagious problem (swim bladder issues and the injury - scales) and/or has an internal parasite infection which won't have been passed on in such a short time and considering the tank is divided (the other fish would have had to eat some of the gourami's poo :p).
 
thanks for the reply...i was waiting for someone to answer my question!!! :p

well the two were together one day before i put in a divider.

i moved the platy to the big tank and at first he was slightly stressed and hung in the back of the tank but now he swims happily with the other platy.

the gourami doesn't seem to be eating or at least he cannot. the only parasite med. i found was medicated food. He pecked at it a couple times but that was all. can i feed him frozen daphnia? He might be able to eat that...

he swims around more...i hope he gets better!
 
Yes, frozen daphnia is good for him.

Is the poo still white?

When you say he cannot eat, what exactly is the problem?

Any sign of other symptoms appearing?

Also, where does he spend most time in the water? I mean, a normal dwarf will usualy stay near the top. Very sick ones tend to lay on the bottom. Those suffering from bad water quality will be gasping constantly at the surface. And so on...
 
he usually stays at the surface....i caught him at the bottom once

i just noticed some wierd projections on him....i looked it up and asked some question....i think he has anchor worms

the poo is still white

he tries to eat..but he can't
he cannot pick food off the surface
he cant seem to get food in his mouth at all...i will try frozen foods

i only have frozen bloodworms though

what can i do for the anchor worms until i can get medication...foods, or water temperature...water changes...anything like that?????
 
Ok, first off - to help him eat, chop up the bloodworms into tiny pieces. If he still can't eat them, you may just have to find something more tempting. Live foods are usualy irresistable for most fish. Gouramies are no exception.

With the anchor worms, here's a good articles about all sorts of parasites and, also, specificaly about anchor worms/lernea.:
http://www.texaskoi.com/Articles/fish_parasites_101.htm
http://www.ponddoc.com/WhatsUpDoc/FishHealth/FlashDance.htm
http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/fish_parasites.html
That's just a tiny selection of those I found on www.google.com. Search 'lernea fish parasite' or 'anchor worm' and you'll get plenty of hits.

You'll note that these articles tend to reffer more to fish in ponds or in the wild than to home aquaria. That is because this parasite is rather rare in tanks (most common probably in koi actualy) and I am quite surprised your fish has it but I suppose it ties in with the scale problem you described and explains why the other fish were picking at it.

Keep an eye out incase any of your other fish contract it and I would suggest stripping this tank down and disinfecting it once you think all the anchor worms have been destroyed. It isn't usualy necessary to take such drastic measures but it is better to be safe than sorry.

Also, unfortunately, there's very little you can do right now to hinder the anchor worms - they are crustaceans so salt can't harm them like it does other parasites (here's an article on salt BTW: http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/salt.htm Very useful though it won't help in this particular circumstance). You'll also note that the treatments usualy available for other parasites will not work effectively on anchor worms so be careful to choose carefuly.
 
thank you greatly for the sites and your reply!

but BAD NEWS....i see that several of my mollies have an anchor worm..the platy i moved must have transferred them...so now my 40 gallon is infected...do i go about with the same treatments?

do i treat them and clean out the tanks?

so i clean out the tanks after treatment?...after all the anchor worms are off the fish?

thanks again
 
Yes, you will have to treat all of them in both tanks until you feel all the worms have been killed off. But, dn't clean out the main tank - just the 10 gallon once the gourami is well enough to be mvoed out. This is only a precaution against the spread of disease.

BTW, do you have snails in your tank?

You won't want to strip down and disinfect the main tank - just the hospital tank/10 gallon once treatment is over. I do this with all my hospital tanks so as to stop the spread of disease. I suggest you use this tank in future to quarantine new additions. That should keep this kind of thing from happening again.

If you were to take apart the main tank, you may be causing more harm than good as you'll need to replace the filter media, wash out gravel etc and would end up with a situation where you need to cycle your tank all voer again from scratch and that, obviously, would be very stressful for your fish. So just treat the main tank until all signs of the worms are gone and just hope you don't get a re-occurance.
 
this is what i did...the only treatment i could find right away was>>
ANTI-FLUKE treatment for fluke parasites
made by aquarium products
that is ALL i could find...the ingredients read: dimethyl, hydroxy and trichloromethyl phosphate

it does not have..that i see...organophosphate...or does it??? i dunno

im willing to go where necessary to find better medicine..any advice on this?

what i did was medicate the 10 gallon and the 40 gallon..but after reading some artical on inefficient medicine for anchor worms I:

from 40 gal:
seperated three fish (without visible anchor worms) put in gallon bowl with some salt, stress coat, and the anchorworm treatment

seperated three fishes, removed all visible anchor worms, and did same as above in different bowl

seperated small pleco in own bowl with AW treatment

10 gallon:
put Gourami in own bowl same as above after removing most of the worms
put pleco in own bowl with treatment

did i do this right?
will that medicine be effective?
what do i use to disinfect both of the tanks, ornaments, fake plants, gravel, ect?
how long do i keep fishes in the bowls?
how do i do water changes in bowls (lots of poo)?
how do i feed fish if they must stay in bowls for a few days?
how do i know the medicine is working?how long?
any more advice, tips, ect?


thank you for your reply..i was seriously about to clean both tanks. i am seriously willing to start all over with my cycle and everything (it was actually a newly cycled tank) because i DO NOT want to risk anything..so you advise me not to do this?

i was going to have the fishes seperated..frequent water changes and such and then introduce them in tank slowly one by one or two by two..

so...bad idea? i just dont want to risk anything...help!
 
sorry for the double post..but i need to add some things. i dont have snail..can i ask why you ask?

the reason i took the fish out also...is because i read that the eggs or something can harbor in the gravel and cannot be killed or vacuumed up..basically they recommended to clean gravel and disinfect tank

basically i want to treat each fish and disinfect tank...but i dunno :sad:
??????
 
Lots of questions there :p To be absolutely honest with you, I have never had this in any of my tanks so I have no experience in treating it myself. I will try to help but I think you would be better off researching everything a bit more off the internet.

Well first off, I asked about the snail because a lot of treatments can't be used on them and also because they too can ahrbour the parasite and, as a result of these two things, could easily start the whole thing all over again.

Sorry I can't be of much help when it comes to the fluke treatment. I'm not familiar with the particular brand so I don't know what's in it. IMO though, you should try to get hold of a medicine made especialy for anchor worms. You should be able to order it online if you are prepaired to do so. I would have hoped that an LFS in your area would stock appropriate treatments but, obviously, it's up to you to search around and see if they do.

What you did sounds about right and, hopefuly, it should work. However, you will need to do daily water changes (replacing the meds each time) in order to keep water quality up. As the bowls are not cycled (and will not cycle duing the course of the treatment either), 100% changes may be necessary. To be honest, I would be weary of putting 3 fish to a gallon bowl. Water quality will deteriorate ridiculously fast and the water changes are going to be stressful.

If it were me, I would have treated them in the 40 gallon and waited for all signs of worms to dissapear. Then I'd keep the treatment up for a couple of extra weeks and, at the first sign of the parasite returning, would resume treatment for a logner period. Removing the worms first was probably a good idea but - how did you do this? Many of the 'conventional' methods don't actualy kill the worm - they remove the 'tail end' if you like but the head is left embeded in the fish and survives. I'm not sure whether this at least stops them reproducing.

I do see why you are going for the bowls but, unless you are fully aware of the risks, even putting all the fish in the 10 gallon may be a better option than having them in the little bowls. If, of course, you feel confident doing what you are, by all means continue.

I don't know exactly how long you need to keep the fish in the bowls. There should be instructions with the med. It varies from one to the next. If you need to treat for a long time, add an aerator to the bowls. Make sure you watch all the fish carefuly. At the first sign of distress, do a very large water change with fresh water and let them recover before continuing with the treatment.

You asked how you do water changes in bowls - well I feel you need to do full water changes which will involve catching the fish and moving it to a seperate container each time. This is going to be stressful for them so make it as quick as possible and lets hope you don't need to keep them in the bowls too long. What I would do is fill up a bucket with fresh, de-chlorinated water and add the appropriate amount of each med/salt etc to it. Then catch the fish from their bowl and put them in the bucket. Empty the bucket and rinse it out. Re-fill with water from the bucket using a syphon or airline tubing and return the fish as the bowl fills. Any extra water left in the bucket you should throw away and rinse out the bucket with hot water. Then repeat for each bowl. You could do 90% water changes and elliminate the need to move the fish around but, to be honest, it probably wouldn't be enough to maintain good quality water.

If you are prepaired to cycle both tanks again and to strip them down and clean everything up etc (keep in mind this will eman the fish are stuck in the bowls for longer though), I suggest you take everything apart. The tank, gravel, ornaments, filter, heater etc will need to be rinsed in water seperately, where appropriate, hot water is better (watch as some things may be damaged - such as the tank itself - by hot water). Whatever you can, soak in a mild bleach solution. Then RINSE. Finaly, let everything dry thoroughly in the sun. Keep in mind that you are going to need to get new filter media.

When the tank has been set up again (I suggest you let it all dry outside in the sun for at least a day or two, then rinse out one last time to get rid of any dust that has settled); do a fishless cycle. This is much faster than cycling with fish so you'll be able to put the inhabitants in quicker and you'll be able to put them all in at once.

Ok, something I think you should do - strip down the 40 gallon only. Keep the 10 gallon cycled by throwing in a little fish food every 3-4 days (you'll have plenty of time after you've cycled the 40 and all the fish are ok to take the 10 apart as well and repeat the whole process). Just a tiny bit. It will rot and produce ammonia to feed the good bacteria. Then, if you've decided you are up to it, start taking apart the 40 gallon right away. Set it up again afterwards and start the fishless cycle (link in my signature about this if you don't know how it works). That'll save time so that when the fish' treatment is over they will need to spend less time in the bowls. The reason I'm telling you to keep the 10 set up and cycled is incase 'plan A' doesn't work out. I would also treat the 10 gallon as if it had fish in it - ie, add the appropriate meds and do a weekly water change to keep nitrAtes low. Raising the temperature may help. Right into the 80s (deg. F) should be fine. Just remember that, in the event that you do need to use this tank after all, you lower the temperature first! If you see your fish are not doing well in their bowls, don't hesitate to make use of the 10 gallon.

I'm sorry I couldn't realy be of much assistance with the medication and treatment. Like I said, I've had no experience with this parasite myself. I think you should probably try to find one that targets anchor worms in particular and follow the instructions given with it. That would be the safest thing to do. What you are doing now sounds ok but risky and I'm not sure whether the fluke treatment will work for the anchor worms effectively. How long it will take I cannot say. This depends mostly on the medication(s) you are using realy.

If someone on this forum has treated for anchor worms before, please do add your input!
 
sorry fir the double post..

the only fish whi is stressing is a platy..you advised that i should put them in the 10 gallon.

however...the 10 gallon is where the worms were really infested...there were like 20 of them things on my gourami...

should i move him anyway?

how long before the ones in my empty tank die out?..i should really research that question bc i know u are unfamiliar with these

thanks again
 

Most reactions

trending

Members online

Back
Top