General stocking questions

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I understand that and then I'll make sense and you guys are all correct. I stand corrected. Unfortunately I stand much much more confused at what fish I was supposed to get now.. at first I thought my problem was that I just needed high pH fish. so now I can't get a Molly because I have a low KH. but I have two mollies that I have to get rid of now and not sure which fish I should get. Or if I should just get out of the hobby now, this is getting very frustrating I'm not a chemist

A summary explanation may help. This is a basic concept that we must all understand, and it need not be over complicated, so my explanation will be very basic and leave out some detail but it is the general concept you need to understand.

GH is the general hardness of water, which is primarily the amount of dissolved calcium and magnesium in the water. GH does not change much if at all in an aquarium (for simplicity I'll leave out how to do this, that is involved) so the GH of your source (tap) water is what you have to work with. Fish are impacted by GH more than any thing else when it comes to water, except or equally temperature. Generally, there are fish species that function best in soft or very soft water, and species that function best in moderately hard to hard water. Some species manage well in the middle.

GH is measured in several different units, but degrees (dH or dGH) and parts per million (ppm) are the commonly used hobby units. The ppm is the same as mg/l which many water authorities use. You can convert back and forth with the number 17.9, multiplying dGH by 17.9 to get the equivalent ppm, or dividing ppm by 17.9 to get the relevant dGH. I prefer dGH because the numbers are smaller and for me more easily remembered.

KH is the carbonate hardness also called Alkalinity. Fish are affected by this, but much less significantly generally speaking. KH is usually close to GH, so the higher the GH the higher the KH, again generally. I personally do not worry about KH but it is useful to know that it acts like a buffer to maintain the pH and prevent fluctuations. This is critical if one starts adjusting the pH, because the KH can kick in and the pH will return to what it was, depending upon the KH level. This is seriously debilitating for fish, fluctuating pH.

The pH has to do with ions in the water. A pH of 7.0 is neutral, pure water like RO or distilled. Water is a strong solvent, so it readily picks up minerals, organics, CO2, etc that it passes over/through. A pH below 7 is on the acidic side, while a pH above 7 is on the basic side. Generally, a higher GH will mean a more basic pH, and a low GH will usually have a more acidic pH. Fish that prefer soft water (low or no GH) tend to also prefer acidic pH, and fish preferring harder water tend to prefer a more basic pH, so the two go together nicely.

Mollies like all livebearers as an example need mineral in the water because their physiology is designed to use this calcium and magnesium, and if this is not in the water they will not obtain sufficient and this causes serious internal problems and leads to death. Opposite, soft water fish have a physiology that does not need or use these minerals in the water, so when soft water fish are forced to live in harder water they are absorbing these minerals unnecessarily (to explain how would take a book) from the water and this causes internal problems and leads to death.

Adjusting parameters I will not get into as I said, but you would need to deal with the GH/KH and the pH would sort of follow. You have water with a GH of 150 ppm (divide by 17.9 for the equivalent 8 dGH) which is moderately soft. There are a lot of fish that will be fine in this water, but not mollies. There are fish with differing requirements (needing water like you now have) in your post #1 and some of these would not be suitable. As a second tank just for the mollies is not possible, it would be best to return the mollies or otherwise re-home them.
 
A summary explanation may help. This is a basic concept that we must all understand, and it need not be over complicated, so my explanation will be very basic and leave out some detail but it is the general concept you need to understand.

GH is the general hardness of water, which is primarily the amount of dissolved calcium and magnesium in the water. GH does not change much if at all in an aquarium (for simplicity I'll leave out how to do this, that is involved) so the GH of your source (tap) water is what you have to work with. Fish are impacted by GH more than any thing else when it comes to water, except or equally temperature. Generally, there are fish species that function best in soft or very soft water, and species that function best in moderately hard to hard water. Some species manage well in the middle.

GH is measured in several different units, but degrees (dH or dGH) and parts per million (ppm) are the commonly used hobby units. The ppm is the same as mg/l which many water authorities use. You can convert back and forth with the number 17.9, multiplying dGH by 17.9 to get the equivalent ppm, or dividing ppm by 17.9 to get the relevant dGH. I prefer dGH because the numbers are smaller and for me more easily remembered.

KH is the carbonate hardness also called Alkalinity. Fish are affected by this, but much less significantly generally speaking. KH is usually close to GH, so the higher the GH the higher the KH, again generally. I personally do not worry about KH but it is useful to know that it acts like a buffer to maintain the pH and prevent fluctuations. This is critical if one starts adjusting the pH, because the KH can kick in and the pH will return to what it was, depending upon the KH level. This is seriously debilitating for fish, fluctuating pH.

The pH has to do with ions in the water. A pH of 7.0 is neutral, pure water like RO or distilled. Water is a strong solvent, so it readily picks up minerals, organics, CO2, etc that it passes over/through. A pH below 7 is on the acidic side, while a pH above 7 is on the basic side. Generally, a higher GH will mean a more basic pH, and a low GH will usually have a more acidic pH. Fish that prefer soft water (low or no GH) tend to also prefer acidic pH, and fish preferring harder water tend to prefer a more basic pH, so the two go together nicely.

Mollies like all livebearers as an example need mineral in the water because their physiology is designed to use this calcium and magnesium, and if this is not in the water they will not obtain sufficient and this causes serious internal problems and leads to death. Opposite, soft water fish have a physiology that does not need or use these minerals in the water, so when soft water fish are forced to live in harder water they are absorbing these minerals unnecessarily (to explain how would take a book) from the water and this causes internal problems and leads to death.

Adjusting parameters I will not get into as I said, but you would need to deal with the GH/KH and the pH would sort of follow. You have water with a GH of 150 ppm (divide by 17.9 for the equivalent 8 dGH) which is moderately soft. There are a lot of fish that will be fine in this water, but not mollies. There are fish with differing requirements (needing water like you now have) in your post #1 and some of these would not be suitable. As a second tank just for the mollies is not possible, it would be best to return the mollies or otherwise re-home them.
Okay I understand basically what you're saying about GH and KH and pH. I have a basic understanding of acidity and base the pH. But to be a completely honest a lot of the answers you guys are giving me a confusing me more than helping me. So you're telling me that I have soft water with a high pH? My local water is hard it leaves white marks on everything as you know hard water does. But apparently I have soft water according to you guys how do you have softer water like you said and a high pH
 
Okay I understand basically what you're saying about GH and KH and pH. I have a basic understanding of acidity and base the pH. But to be a completely honest a lot of the answers you guys are giving me a confusing me more than helping me. So you're telling me that I have soft water with a high pH? My local water is hard it leaves white marks on everything as you know hard water does. But apparently I have soft water according to you guys how do you have softer water like you said and a high pH
I have a pH of basically eight and according to the test strips that I used GH 150 KH 40
 
I have a pH of basically eight and according to the test strips that I used GH 150 KH 40

I was trying to avoid getting into too complicated an explanation previously. My first suggestion would be to check your numbers with your municipal water authority, just to confirm (or correct) your test strip readings. There may be water data posted on their website.

The GH is the most important of GH, KH and pH for fish. Other things besides GH impact pH. Once we have the GH confirmed, we will know in which direction to look for suitable fish.
 
I was trying to avoid getting into too complicated an explanation previously. My first suggestion would be to check your numbers with your municipal water authority, just to confirm (or correct) your test strip readings. There may be water data posted on their website.

The GH is the most important of GH, KH and pH for fish. Other things besides GH impact pH. Once we have the GH confirmed, we will know in which direction to look for suitable fish.
I looked at my local water website and it's saying for the second quarter of 2019 the hardness is about 51 mg/l which really doesn't match up with what my test strips are saying. I understand the test strips aren't as good as liquid tests but I bought the API Master test kit and as you know KH and GH s are not included.
 
Correction the first quarter of 2019 was 51 the second quarter of 2019 is 54
 
I looked at my local water website and it's saying for the second quarter of 2019 the hardness is about 51 mg/l which really doesn't match up with what my test strips are saying. I understand the test strips aren't as good as liquid tests but I bought the API Master test kit and as you know KH and GH s are not included.

First, I would assume the water authority's numbers are reliable, so 51 mg/l (= ppm) is 2.8 dGH (round it to 3 for ease) which is soft/very soft should be it. The pH is likely to lower in the aquarium over time, so that will suit soft water fish too.

Second, you could take a sample of your tap water to a reliable fish store and ask them to test the GH. [Make sure you get their number and the unit they are using.] This would be a third test. It is always possible the test strips are not accurate, due to moisture in the air, or whatever. The API liquid GH/KH test is reliable, but you may not want to spend the money and only use it the once, so try the store first and see. Once you can be confident in the GH of the source water, it is not going to change in the aquarium and you will be fine. The pH is worth testing periodically as it can show some problems if it is not consistent, and if it is consistent then you know the tank is quite stable water wise.
 
looked at my local water website and it's saying for the second quarter of 2019 the hardness is about 51 mg/l which really doesn't match up with what my test strips are saying.
What is the substrate in your tank? Do you have any rocks as ornaments, and if so what are they?

I also only look at GH to determine what species are suitable. Test strips really are not as inaccurate as some people suggest (unless you have a bad batch). Nobody has spoken about how to change the hardness of your water, and I would certainly not recommend trying, but it is possible that you are inadvertently doing this already. A quick and easy test would be to test the GH of a glass of tapwater and compare that to what you test in the tank. (If you cut the strip in half length-ways, using clean dry scissors you only need to use up one strip.) There is no need to wait, as @Byron says GH does not change over time (at least not on its own).
 
Is your water provider's hardness unit mg/l calcium carbonate? For example, in the UK, lots of water companies use the unit mg/l calcium which is not the same as mg/l calcium carbonate. This is why we need to make sure we give everything written for hardness not just a number.
 
First, I would assume the water authority's numbers are reliable, so 51 mg/l (= ppm) is 2.8 dGH (round it to 3 for ease) which is soft/very soft should be it. The pH is likely to lower in the aquarium over time, so that will suit soft water fish too.

Second, you could take a sample of your tap water to a reliable fish store and ask them to test the GH. [Make sure you get their number and the unit they are using.] This would be a third test. It is always possible the test strips are not accurate, due to moisture in the air, or whatever. The API liquid GH/KH test is reliable, but you may not want to spend the money and only use it the once, so try the store first and see. Once you can be confident in the GH of the source water, it is not going to change in the aquarium and you will be fine. The pH is worth testing periodically as it can show some problems if it is not consistent, and if it is consistent then you know the tank is quite stable water wise.
Okay that makes sense I'll go have the water tested by a local fish store here. As for my pH so far it has been pretty rock-solid when I test it with the API Master test kit. That's pretty much always from what I can tell about 7.8 to 8 I mean that has really never fluctuated in the six weeks I've been testing
What is the substrate in your tank? Do you have any rocks as ornaments, and if so what are they?

I also only look at GH to determine what species are suitable. Test strips really are not as inaccurate as some people suggest (unless you have a bad batch). Nobody has spoken about how to change the hardness of your water, and I would certainly not recommend trying, but it is possible that you are inadvertently doing this already. A quick and easy test would be to test the GH of a glass of tapwater and compare that to what you test in the tank. (If you cut the strip in half length-ways, using clean dry scissors you only need to use up one strip.) There is no need to wait, as @Byron says GH does not change over time (at least not on its own).
I have gravel substrate and a couple of fake plants and store-bought ornaments that's about it. The test strips are giving me a reading of 150 but my local water authority is saying it's about 54 so I'm confused. But like Byron said I am going to go have an lfs test it for GH
 
Is your water provider's hardness unit mg/l calcium carbonate? For example, in the UK, lots of water companies use the unit mg/l calcium which is not the same as mg/l calcium carbonate. This is why we need to make sure we give everything written for hardness not just a number.
It's actually not saying which of those it is the only other measurement that it has is 3.2 gpg grains per gallon
 
3.2 grains per gallon is useful, that's a definite unit. It converts to 55 ppm (also called mg/l calcium carbonate). And it also converts to 3.0 dH. This confirms that your water provider's 51 and 53 are indeed ppm.


Hardness units are more confusing than giving tank volume in litres or gallons; there are just too many hardness units.
 
3.2 grains per gallon is useful, that's a definite unit. It converts to 55 ppm (also called mg/l calcium carbonate). And it also converts to 3.0 dH. This confirms that your water provider's 51 and 53 are indeed ppm.


Hardness units are more confusing than giving tank volume in litres or gallons; there are just too many hardness units.
Thank you for clearing that up it was much appreciated, and you are correct it is very confusing especially to a newcomer like myself.
 
I understand that and then I'll make sense and you guys are all correct. I stand corrected. Unfortunately I stand much much more confused at what fish I was supposed to get now.. at first I thought my problem was that I just needed high pH fish. so now I can't get a Molly because I have a low KH. but I have two mollies that I have to get rid of now and not sure which fish I should get. Or if I should just get out of the hobby now, this is getting very frustrating I'm not a chemist
No, don't quit! Nobody understands this at first (if ever) but all you need is a number for your GH to compare with the fish requirements on Seriously Fish. And you only need this once. You have already made good choices - a reasonable size tank, avoiding superstores, not trying to change your water parametrers, doing research...you will be fine.
 

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