Fishless Or Fish In?

[OldMan47]

I must agree with AndyWG. There are alternatives to anything we do with fish. That includes how to cycle a tank. Although I usually just clone mine with a fishless trial afterward, I have done fish in cycles for at least the first 30 years that I was in the hobby and had good success doing it. The "muppets" are doing what they know how to do with success. That is the essence of a real fishkeeper, not an opinionated beginner with a holier than thou attitude.

 

[Ficious]

i didnt vote because i usualy do fish in with cycled media once you got one tank up and running...slide some filter media in there and youll never have to cycle a tank again! also when i do this ill add less than half of a mature tanks water

 

[Darkerwhite2]

I voted Fishless, but cloning is what i do now. When i started i didnt know about fishless.

 

[saz326]

Hate to be "devils advocate", but again it all depends on the situation.

If you have a new tank that is going to be monitored well, have water changes as and when they are required, and can be a stable environment then there is nothing wrong with "fish in". But ONLY with a small number of fish in a prepared aquarium (i.e. not setting it up on the same day)

"Fish in" is only truely a bad idea when:
1) people buy a tank and buy fish in the same day. Fish spend too long bagged up and temp fluctuations etc cause stress.
2) People dont monitor their tank stats
3) The tank being used is small (larger water volumes have a buffering effect on water chemistry. Changes in water parameters are slower)
4) People overfeed their fish (for fish in cycling, a few small fish should be fed just enough - too much and they poop too much and water chemistry goes mad)
5) People use the wrong fish for the "fish in" cycle. You want something that in its natural environment encounters water fluctuations. Small minnow etc. Not something that needs stable mature aquarium like neons.

It can be done as long as it is done responsibly and with care for the fishes welfare.

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

im going to vote fishless because im doing a fish in and its really stressful

 

[bolivian_d]

Or perhaps someone that has successfully used that system for more years than many of the contributors in this forum have been alive.

Does that make it ok? Is your success defined by not having killed any fish? The bottom line is that the fish are still being put under un-necessary stress regardless of whether you can identify any physical symptoms. I've always done fish in cycles but it's still an inferior method if you have ammonia in a bottle readily available. Your post sounds more like you're justifying years of stubbornness.

 

[JenCliBee]

Or perhaps someone that has successfully used that system for more years than many of the contributors in this forum have been alive.

Does that make it ok? Is your success defined by not having killed any fish? The bottom line is that the fish are still being put under un-necessary stress regardless of whether you can identify any physical symptoms. I've always done fish in cycles but it's still an inferior method if you have ammonia in a bottle readily available. Your post sounds more like you're justifying years of stubbornness.

at least it not just me that thinks that then lol

 

[DaveyH]

I'll never do a fish-in cycle again now that I know about cloning and have got a network of peole that I can share filter media with BUT soemtimes I think that I am being a bit precious as one of my other hobbies is fishing and that is certainly an uncomfortable experience for the (very) occasional fish that I catch. I would be guility of massive double standards if I criticised people that chose to do fish-in cyles.

I wonder if bull-fighting websites have these sorts of debates....?

 

[pippoodle]

i voted fishless but i clone tanks now - i have however done a fish in cycle and did it with daily water changes so levels never really increased to a dangerous amount - i never had any fish die during a fish in cycle , it worked fine for me for a long time before i knew about cloning and fishless cycling
i would not recommend fish in cycling however to a new fish keeper though people that have been keeping fish for years and know how to treat the fish in cycle so it works properly then i can't see anything wrong with that

thanks Sarah

 

[JenCliBee]

i voted fishless but i clone tanks now - i have however done a fish in cycle and did it with daily water changes so levels never really increased to a dangerous amount - i never had any fish die during a fish in cycle , it worked fine for me for a long time before i knew about cloning and fishless cycling
i would not recommend fish in cycling however to a new fish keeper though people that have been keeping fish for years and know how to treat the fish in cycle so it works properly then i can't see anything wrong with that

thanks Sarah

ok then wot do u call a dangerous amount becasue 0 is the only amount suitable for fish full stop!!even minute amounts xcan be detremental 2 fish health in the long riun so only level as said that is fully and truley safe is 0, yeh i agree ivedone fish in cycles myself but now i know theres an alternative then y risk the fishes long term health ...alot of ppl cant be bothered 2 wait for a cycle 2 end it has nothink 2 do with they no wot there doing simple fact there inpatient.

this forum was so and is so fishless cycle orintated that even the likes of miss wiggle ect ect always try push for the fishless cycle so when another very experienced or listened 2 menber comes along with comments suggesting it ok 2 do a fish in cycle then wot sort of impression u giving 2 the new comers that dont know any different

 

[pippoodle]

i did say - i would not recommend fish in cycling however to a new fish keeper though people that have been keeping fish for years and know how to treat the fish in cycle so it works properly then i can't see anything wrong with that

that is just my opinion and as i said a newbie should not do a fish in cycle - i have told lots of newbies to do fishless cycling or cloning and have talked them out of doing fish in cycles

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

i voted fishless but i clone tanks now - i have however done a fish in cycle and did it with daily water changes so levels never really increased to a dangerous amount - i never had any fish die during a fish in cycle , it worked fine for me for a long time before i knew about cloning and fishless cycling
i would not recommend fish in cycling however to a new fish keeper though people that have been keeping fish for years and know how to treat the fish in cycle so it works properly then i can't see anything wrong with that

thanks Sarah

ok then wot do u call a dangerous amount becasue 0 is the only amount suitable for fish full stop!!even minute amounts xcan be detremental 2 fish health in the long riun so only level as said that is fully and truley safe is 0, yeh i agree ivedone fish in cycles myself but now i know theres an alternative then y risk the fishes long term health ...alot of ppl cant be bothered 2 wait for a cycle 2 end it has nothink 2 do with they no wot there doing simple fact there inpatient.

this forum was so and is so fishless cycle orintated that even the likes of miss wiggle ect ect always try push for the fishless cycle so when another very experienced or listened 2 menber comes along with comments suggesting it ok 2 do a fish in cycle then wot sort of impression u giving 2 the new comers that dont know any different

do you think if you tested the water of the lakes your fish come from you would get 0 everything on every test ?

serious question like.

 

[JenCliBee]

do you think if you tested the water of the lakes your fish come from you would get 0 everything on every test ?

serious question like.

with all the polutants than MAN has added etc etc then probably no but if that wasnt a possibilty then yes i would say they would be ...for that question 2 even arise just means that the concept of keeping ur fish in the best condition is not nesserary just becasue they may not be in the wild ??

did say - i would not recommend fish in cycling however to a new fish keeper though people that have been keeping fish for years and know how to treat the fish in cycle so it works properly then i can't see anything wrong with that

that is just my opinion and as i said a newbie should not do a fish in cycle - i have told lots of newbies to do fishless cycling or cloning and have talked them out of doing fish in cycles

i wasnt axctually having a go just aaking a question on wot u thought was a safe level ? even experienced fish keepers unless doing constant water changes and monitoring 24/7 cant be completely sure thers no harmful traces of ammonia etc etc so again just becasue u have expereince doesnt mean fish may not be temporily kept in unsuitable condtions untill the water changes has rid the water from harmful conditions ...just becasue u dont have fish die in a fish in cycle doesny mean u havent shortened there life

 

[saz326]

ok then wot do u call a dangerous amount becasue 0 is the only amount suitable for fish full stop!!even minute amounts xcan be detremental 2 fish health in the long riun so only level as said that is fully and truley safe is 0, yeh i agree ivedone fish in cycles myself but now i know theres an alternative then y risk the fishes long term health ...alot of ppl cant be bothered 2 wait for a cycle 2 end it has nothink 2 do with they no wot there doing simple fact there inpatient.

this forum was so and is so fishless cycle orintated that even the likes of miss wiggle ect ect always try push for the fishless cycle so when another very experienced or listened 2 menber comes along with comments suggesting it ok 2 do a fish in cycle then wot sort of impression u giving 2 the new comers that dont know any different

0 is indeed best for Mr fish.

Anywhere less than 0.2 is still a level that will not be detrimental unles the fish is subject to it for a long time. The bigest problem is that people find it hard to "Guess the colours" when using test kits so could be reading 0.2 when the reading is 0.3 - especially when the reference card only gives the colours for 0 and 0.5.

Remember when a tank is running - yes there are bacteria to deal with the waste, but the waste still sits untreated in the water for a short period of time. It doesnt get instantly removed.

Also, even with a mature tank there can be spikes of ammonia (after particularly heavy meals, or if a fish has been constipated for a while and suddenly let rip) - It happens. But mature filters deal with it, and we return the favour by doing water changes.

Dont forget that in nature the levels would not be 0 all the time. They would fluctuate around 0. Ammonia would be coming from all manner of places. Imagine living in a pond when a Hippo has a dump!

The best way forward is cloning, (do this all the time with my fry tank) but apart from that I would use fish in - as I said earlier as long as it is done carefully and with due attention to detail.

sorry if I have upset people.

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

but say if they have come from an ammonia ridden pond then put into nice clean water then this could possibly bring it own problems to the fish

im only saying theoretically because i have no experience myself and ive only had my tank running a month and chose fish in altho now i wish i had done fishless but none of this was explained to me by my LFS so its hardly my fault

is it?

yes in hignsight i should have done more resurch but everyone makes mistakes once and now i know not to make it when i buy a bigger tank