Fishless Cycle Nitrate Seems High After H2O Change.

[GreenIsGood]

Hi all,
 
  Thank you so much for all the info on this site.  I've been running a fishless cycle for the past 3.5 weeks and thought I was good to go. Last night I did a 90% water change and added a few more plants.
Last night's numbers:
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - off the charts
ph - 7.6
temp - 90F
 
I then added 3-4 ppm ammonia and let it go for 12 hours. The next test results were:
Ammonia - .25
Nitrite - .25-.5
Nitrate - 40-80
ph - 6.8
temp - 73F (dropping the temp because I planned on starting with Endler's)
 
My question is, how is my nitrate that high?  After a 90% h2o change that would mean I was starting with almost 4000ppm!  I'm going to test again in 4 hours to see what the numbers are after the ammonia and nitrite are down to 0.
 
 

 

[daizeUK]

Does your tap water contain nitrates?  Mine has 40-50ppm as standard.

 

[GreenIsGood]

Does your tap water contain nitrates?  Mine has 40-50ppm as standard.

Yes, only 5ppm though.  I should have mentioned that.  Thanks for the reminder.

 

[GreenIsGood]

So i've been adding 4ppm of ammonia every night at 7:30 and it's zeroing out by the next night.  Since the h2o change however that's not the case.  24 hours since my last ammonia addition and I'm at .25ppm ammonia and .5ppm nitrite.  The nitrates are still climbing, they look pretty close to 80.  I have a little trouble differentiating the reds but it looks redder and darker each day.  Ph is 6.8 and stable. Temp is still 72.
 
I realized that I added some wood when I finished scaping and that might be responsible for....something.  I'm guessing it's mopani because it's dense as can be and sank like a stone right away even though it had been on the shelf.

 

[GreenIsGood]

So 24 hours after my last ammonia bump to 4ppm the ammonia and nitrite are zeroed, the ph is stable and the nitrates are at 80+.
 
Is this good? Is this bad? What's your favorite color?  I love lamp....

 

[byork]

Are you using the same test every time? Maybe you should try another test. Are you adding anything other than ammonia? Prime etc.?

 

[GreenIsGood]

Same test every time and it's been a very steady increase in nitrates so I don't think i've had a bad reading due to my error.  All I'm adding is enough ammonia to bring it up to 4ppm once a day at 8pm.
 
It's stabilized nicely so my real concern is still the high nitrate reading after a 90% water change.  Other than the blip yesterday I've been getting zero ammonia and nitrite after 24 hours for the past six days so I'm really wondering if I'm cycled or not?  If so, is my next step a 100% water change and then fish or 100% change and then more waiting.  I've become kind of used to my little underwater plant garden but fish would make it a bit more interesting.

 

[daizeUK]

>> After a 90% h2o change that would mean I was starting with almost 4000ppm!
Are you sure?!    If you have 40ppm after a 90% water change, then you started with 400ppm.
 
The chemistry says that every 1ppm of ammonia you add should get converted to 3.6ppm of nitrate (assuming your test kit is measuring ion concentations).
If you are adding 4ppm of ammonia every day, that's 14.4ppm of nitrate every day.
So depending on how many times you've dosed the ammonia, a few hundred ppm of nitrate is not unthinkable.
 
I hope that somebody else will answer your other questions, as I'd like to help but I'm not really qualified.  I have heard that you should really be aiming to have your ammonia and nitrite to be zeroed after 12 hours rather than 24, but others may consider that you're sufficiently cycled, I'm not sure.

 

[GreenIsGood]

>> After a 90% h2o change that would mean I was starting with almost 4000ppm!
Are you sure?!  

  If you have 40ppm after a 90% water change, then you started with 400ppm.

 I wish I could blame that on drinking but it was 9am.  Great catch and that obviously explains the problem.  So my tank has been stable with one hiccup for the past week.  I guess we're ready for fish!  The snails that hitchhiked in on the plants seem to be happy in there.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

4ppm is a nice high dose, and having it turn over in 24 hours is good.  If you are going to FULLY stock the tank, then I would wait for it to drop in 12 hours.  However, if you are going to only stock it roughly halfway, then you are good to go NOW.
 
 
I would do a 100% water change... Fill it up a bit of the way, and then change that water too, in an effort to flush ALL the nitrate out that you can.  Granted, having plants, having 5-10 ppm is a good target, but you'll want to get it as low as possible for the fish.   
 
 
Empty it out, fill it up and then get it to the proper temp.  Add your fish.  What fish are you looking at?  Do you know how to properly acclimate them?

 

[GreenIsGood]

Thanks for the tip about the partial refill to flush the nitrate.
 
I plan on starting with 6 Endler's livebearers just because the local store doesn't usually stock them and they have a good looking school right now.  I was going to let them settle for a week or so before adding a couple Honey Gourami's.  For acclimating them I was planning on floating the bag for an hour then doing a few water additions over another hour until I added them.  Does that sound about right?  Lights off today? Any food?
 
Side note: For a pair of Honey's what is the best mix? Male/female or male/male?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

that works... You don't need to float them for an hour before making the water additions...  15-20 minutes should be plenty.
 
 
Also, add smaller amounts of water in shorter time intervals...  About 1/2 cup of water every 5 minutes...  Keep doing this until the volume of water in the bag has doubled... then remove half the water and repeat.  Then net the fish and release the fish... do not add the water from the bag to your tank.  
 
http/www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=157
 
I use drip acclimation, but for more hardy species, the floating method works fine... Just take your time, and don't feel rushed.   The whole process should take a good bit of time...


Lights off, and no food the first day... feed the next day.
 
 
Also, if you have fish, its best to feed the OLD fish before starting the acclimation process of the new fish.  Then, you can feed the next day as usual.

 

[GreenIsGood]

Great link! Thanks!
 
Just did the 110% water change and the nitrate is at 6-7ppm.  My tap is 5ppm so that's as good as I can get.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Perfect!

 

[GreenIsGood]

The endler's were purchased the day before I got there so I went back to my original plan and bought two Honey Gouramis.  They seem pretty perky today but one keeps spitting food out.  Hopefully that isn't going to be a problem.
 
One other thing I noticed is that there is a very thin greyish film on the surface.  Is that algae?  I had noticed it before the water change but it didn't reappear until today.