Fish Suggestions and Tank Help?

[ajvoss]

Hey guys!! I have a 2 year old tank that I kind of want to spice up. It's a 21 gallon tank with community tropical freshwater fish. I currently have (4) 2.5" red wag platys and (6) 1" neon tetras. I've never had a fish die on me so I guess that means I take good care of them?¿?

So I have three questions...
(1) - Can I add any more fish? I was thinking about putting in 5 or so red cherry shrimp and then adding 3 more neon tetras. I would also love just to put in 1 fish that really stands out!!! Any suggestions? And I feed them algae wafers, vegetables, and fish flakes with the rare occasion of bloodworms. Is this good?

(2) - Since my tank is pretty well established in my opinion, should I add a few live plants and remove a fake one? I have two small fake plants about 2" in height that I want to replace.

(3) - I do 10-15% water change every other week and a gravel vac once a month. But for some reason, every time I gravel vac the water turns "milky" or foggy after. This lasts from a few hours to about 2 days. Is this okay or does this hurt the fishies??

Thanks!!!

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

You could add a few more neons with no problems, and the neons would be happier for having more of them; another 3-6.

I will leave the shrimp question for others, as I have never kept cherry shrimp. I will just say that crustaceans (shrimp are a crustacean) are natural foods of most all aquarium fish in the wild, where crustaceans exist, so small shrimp may get eaten. I have seen other members mention shrimp less likely to be consumed, so I will leave this for them to respond.

As for a fish that "stands out," I would forget this. In small tanks (a 20 gallon is small to the fish) "centrepiece" type fish tend not to work very well. You are better to stay with small sized species. Having groups of shoaling fish (like the neons) will actually expand the space visually, making it more interesting with more fish. And many larger fish have issues.

On the platy, I cannot tell from the photo if these are male/female, though it seems they are all female but not certain. If both genders are present, you will soon have fry explosions. Some but not all will get eaten.

On the water changes, you should increase the frequency to once each week. And increase the volume to about half the tank. And vacuum the gravel each time. This may eliminate the cloudiness issue, which is either microscopic particulate matter stirred up, or a bacterial bloom caused by disturbing the "bed" of the bacteria, or both. It is harmless to fish, though unsightly. But increasing the frequency and volume may solve this. Also keeping the filter rinsed (even if doing this at every water change) is another possible factor.

Live plants are a benefit as they remove all sorts of stuff from the water. Floating are easiest to deal with. The light is the primary issue for plants, but from the photo I would think you should be OK; data on the light will help.

Byron.

 

[ajvoss]

Welcome to TFF.

You could add a few more neons with no problems, and the neons would be happier for having more of them; another 3-6.

I will leave the shrimp question for others, as I have never kept cherry shrimp. I will just say that crustaceans (shrimp are a crustacean) are natural foods of most all aquarium fish in the wild, where crustaceans exist, so small shrimp may get eaten. I have seen other members mention shrimp less likely to be consumed, so I will leave this for them to respond.

As for a fish that "stands out," I would forget this. In small tanks (a 20 gallon is small to the fish) "centrepiece" type fish tend not to work very well. You are better to stay with small sized species. Having groups of shoaling fish (like the neons) will actually expand the space visually, making it more interesting with more fish. And many larger fish have issues.

On the platy, I cannot tell from the photo if these are male/female, though it seems they are all female but not certain. If both genders are present, you will soon have fry explosions. Some but not all will get eaten.

On the water changes, you should increase the frequency to once each week. And increase the volume to about half the tank. And vacuum the gravel each time. This may eliminate the cloudiness issue, which is either microscopic particulate matter stirred up, or a bacterial bloom caused by disturbing the "bed" of the bacteria, or both. It is harmless to fish, though unsightly. But increasing the frequency and volume may solve this. Also keeping the filter rinsed (even if doing this at every water change) is another possible factor.

Live plants are a benefit as they remove all sorts of stuff from the water. Floating are easiest to deal with. The light is the primary issue for plants, but from the photo I would think you should be OK; data on the light will help.

Byron.

First off, thanks so much!! All my platys are female... I did this so I wouldn't get any fry explosions. I have the light on from 6am- 6:30pm. It's an LED light, but there's also some daylight that while inderectly light up the tank.

So if I do a larger water change every week with a gravel vac, that the cloudyness should go away? I'll try that! And when you say to rinse the filter, should I rinse it with the water that I took out of the tank, or the water I'm about to put in the tank? Lastly, they say 1" per gallon in fish tanks, so I have 16" stocked. Could I add 6 more neon tetras and still be okay? That would be 22". I was also thing of adding 3 more neon tetras and 7 bloodfin tetras to add more variation to the tank. Any suggestions?

 

[Byron]

I have the light on from 6am- 6:30pm. It's an LED light, but there's also some daylight that while inderectly light up the tank.

You could try some floating plants. I can't say much about the light without knowing the specs, but it doesn't look bad in the photo. True floating plants like Water Sprite, Water Lettuce, Frogbit. Some stem plants do well left floating, Pennywort is one.

So if I do a larger water change every week with a gravel vac, that the cloudyness should go away? I'll try that! And when you say to rinse the filter, should I rinse it with the water that I took out of the tank, or the water I'm about to put in the tank?

It's obvious from your description that the cloudiness is being caused when you "clean" the gravel, and (I assume) not during the other water changes when you don't touch the gravel, so that tells us it is not solely the fresh water causing the cloudiness (this can happen). So it should help, yes. It certainly won't hurt as you should be changing more anyway.

In new tanks it is best to rinse the filter media in tank water, but in established tanks this is not beneficial. For one thing, the tap water might kill off undesirable bacteria, but it will not kill off all the good nitrifying bacteria as some suggest, there are scientific studies proving this myth. I've been rinsing my filters under the tap for more than 20 years. This will be even less of an issue with live plants, as they are fast at taking up ammonia.

Lastly, they say 1" per gallon in fish tanks, so I have 16" stocked. Could I add 6 more neon tetras and still be okay? That would be 22". I was also thing of adding 3 more neon tetras and 7 bloodfin tetras to add more variation to the tank. Any suggestions?

First, the "guide" of an inch of fish to whatever is a bit misleading. The larger the fish the more impact on the biology, but there are also other factors that impact biology. If for example you have non-compatible species, and some are "aggressive" and others are under stress, this impacts the biological system more than all peaceful compatible fish of the same size/number. This leads me to your bloodfins...forget them. This species is feisty, and often prone to fin nip other species. In a very large tank they might be safer, but not here. There is a lot to selecting "compatible" species. Back to the numbers...shoaling fish are always more settled with more of them, so it is possible that 6 neons will have more impact on the biology than would 10-12 neons, odd though that may seem. But fish that are "comfortable" are not working their physiology as much as fish under stress, so they have less of an overall impact. Up to a point obviously, but you probably get the drift. So I would say 9-12 neons, the platy, and you could find another quiet smallish species. I would suggest cories as they add interest to the lower level, but you really should have sand, not gravel, so they can dig into it and sift it through their gills.

Glowlights would work, a group of 7-9 maybe. Or the Ember Tetra in a group of 10-12. With live plants, and the weekly 50% water changes, this is workable.

Byron.

 

[ajvoss]

You could try some floating plants. I can't say much about the light without knowing the specs, but it doesn't look bad in the photo. True floating plants like Water Sprite, Water Lettuce, Frogbit. Some stem plants do well left floating, Pennywort is one.



It's obvious from your description that the cloudiness is being caused when you "clean" the gravel, and (I assume) not during the other water changes when you don't touch the gravel, so that tells us it is not solely the fresh water causing the cloudiness (this can happen). So it should help, yes. It certainly won't hurt as you should be changing more anyway.

In new tanks it is best to rinse the filter media in tank water, but in established tanks this is not beneficial. For one thing, the tap water might kill off undesirable bacteria, but it will not kill off all the good nitrifying bacteria as some suggest, there are scientific studies proving this myth. I've been rinsing my filters under the tap for more than 20 years. This will be even less of an issue with live plants, as they are fast at taking up ammonia.



First, the "guide" of an inch of fish to whatever is a bit misleading. The larger the fish the more impact on the biology, but there are also other factors that impact biology. If for example you have non-compatible species, and some are "aggressive" and others are under stress, this impacts the biological system more than all peaceful compatible fish of the same size/number. This leads me to your bloodfins...forget them. This species is feisty, and often prone to fin nip other species. In a very large tank they might be safer, but not here. There is a lot to selecting "compatible" species. Back to the numbers...shoaling fish are always more settled with more of them, so it is possible that 6 neons will have more impact on the biology than would 10-12 neons, odd though that may seem. But fish that are "comfortable" are not working their physiology as much as fish under stress, so they have less of an overall impact. Up to a point obviously, but you probably get the drift. So I would say 9-12 neons, the platy, and you could find another quiet smallish species. I would suggest cories as they add interest to the lower level, but you really should have sand, not gravel, so they can dig into it and sift it through their gills.

Glowlights would work, a group of 7-9 maybe. Or the Ember Tetra in a group of 10-12. With live plants, and the weekly 50% water changes, this is workable.

Byron.

Thanks again. But are you sure I could add that many fish. That's around 28-32" of fish in my 21gal tank? I mean I guess that works because schooling fish stay close together.

Would I still be able to put a few shrimp in because they live on the bottom level and they are the clean up crew? I can't imagine that their bioload could be so much. Thanks!

Final: 4 Platy, 12 Neon, 7 Glowlight, and 3 Ghost Shrimp???

 

[Byron]

Thanks again. But are you sure I could add that many fish. That's around 28-32" of fish in my 21gal tank? I mean I guess that works because schooling fish stay close together.

Would I still be able to put a few shrimp in because they live on the bottom level and they are the clean up crew? I can't imagine that their bioload could be so much. Thanks!

Final: 4 Platy, 12 Neon, 7 Glowlight, and 3 Ghost Shrimp???

I think I temporarily forgot about the platies...but add the neons, yes. And plants, floating if you can find some. And increase water changes.

 

[ajvoss]

I think I temporarily forgot about the platies...but add the neons, yes. And plants, floating if you can find some. And increase water changes.

Thanks!! Just bought 5 more neons (11 total). Also put in 3 Ghost Shrimp. Did a water change and gravel vac about an hour before I bought the fish and the water didn't turn milky!!! Do you know if I add a male Mickey Mouse platy, that he will breed with the others? If so I might add him so I can raise fry in my 10 gal tank.

 

[Byron]

Thanks!! Just bought 5 more neons (11 total). Also put in 3 Ghost Shrimp. Did a water change and gravel vac about an hour before I bought the fish and the water didn't turn milky!!! Do you know if I add a male Mickey Mouse platy, that he will breed with the others? If so I might add him so I can raise fry in my 10 gal tank.

All varieties of platy are the same species, Xiphophorus maculatus. All the many varieties (red, marble, wagtail, tuxedo, mickey mouse, etc, etc) are derived by selective breeding from the one wild species. This means they will breed among themselves.

Now, on fry...watch out. You have four females, so the male will readily impregnate all of them, and then even if he were removed, they can deliver many batches of fry for several months, and you will have hundreds monthly. This is not easy to handle...no store is going to want all of them, and they will have to be culled (fry euthanized). Not all will get naturally eaten, with this many.