fish and pain

[endparenthesis]

I'm probably going to get some flak for this, but I think this would be a useful article for a lot of fish owners to read (I was going to add it to the euthanasia sticky, but it was closed).

http/www.cotrout.org/do_fish_feel_pain.htm

I'm posting this because I've noticed a lot of people here go through a great deal of heartache when their fish are hurt or sick. We don't want them to be hurt or sick, of course, but I think anthropomorphizing the fish makes the whole ordeal much harder on you than it needs to be.

This quote sums it all up pretty well:

REACTIONS TO INJURY ARE PRESENT IN ALL FORMS OF ANIMAL LIFE BUT THESE REACTIONS DO NOT MEAN THAT PAIN IS EXPERIENCED-IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR A NOCICEPTIVE STIMULUS TO BE CONSCIOUSLY EXEPERIENCED FOR A BEHAVIORAL REACTION TO OCCUR

The basic premise of the article (because I doubt many will bother clicking) is that "lower" lifeforms, especially cold-blooded ones, don't need to experience pain in the traumatizing form that humans do.

Creatures that act on instinct will automatically obey the impulse to escape something that does them harm. In their case, "pain" doesn't need to be anything more than a repelling force. Something does them harm and their brain sends them moving in the other direction. No trauma required. Chances are the resulting avoidance isn't even a conscious act.

The fact that human beings can override their instincts means that pain needs to create trauma to ensure our survival. We would allow a great deal more harm to come to us if we experienced pain simply as a very strong impulse to avoid someone or something. It becomes a complex conscious experience that is unique to the more intelligent end of the spectrum of animal life.

That's a simplified version of the message the article is trying to communicate.

You don't need to put yourself in a fish's place when it's hurt or sick... you don't need to torture yourself over what you imagine it to be feeling. The similarities you may think exist between your experiences of pain simply aren't there. It isn't as horrific for them as you may believe it to be.

So I say this in the interest of alleviating some heartache. Nothing more.

It's a nice thought to picture them as little aquatic people... but wishing doesn't make it so. I personally like keeping fish because they're different from me... not because they're the same. I like observing how differently other creatures experience the world.

And, unfortunately in this world this has to be added... if you think this somehow makes it "ok" to abuse a fish or some other creature... well, it isn't hard to see who the "lower" lifeform is there.

 

[punkserb]

very good post. i was wondering the same recently, its good to see this was basically proven.

 

[endparenthesis]

I should also add that there are plenty of people who believe that fish do have the actual physical mechanisms for transmitting a pain signal to the brain... but the question still remains whether they experience it in a complex conscious fashion, or if it simply sets off instinctual triggers, bypassing what little conscious mind they may or may not have.

Like anything else you just have to decide for yourself in the end. But at least review the evidence before you do.

 

[The-Wolf]

biologists and icthyologists have been debating this issue for decades
the general consensus is now leaning toward "they do experiance pain,
but in a different way to us."

Personally I think that all life experiances pain this includes plants and "lower lifeforms". It is the degree of registeration of pain that differs.

 

[Teelie]

I'm fairly certain fish feel pain but I do agree it's not the same as humans or other higher level lifeforms do and most likely, they don't suffer or feel the same way. It doesn't excuse or condone mistreatment of fish but it should make some people lighten up on the "inhumane" treatment attacks they make.

Or they'll just ignore this in the face of their own assumptions and disregard it to go back to bashing people upside the head for euthanizing a fish in what they feel is wrong manner.

 

[csr mel]

i am convenced fish do not feel pain. i have a platy which likes to hide under a certain rock. when he is under there his tail needs to keep moving slowly to stay in one spot because of the current. he awalys stays in one place when he is under the rock and his tail gets ground down by the top of the rock. the rock acts like sandpaper on his tail. he has worn half his tail off already and doesnt seem to care. his tail is wearing down to the point where he will soon be wearing out his body, i may have to change the rocks potition so he can no longer do this.
because he doesnt mind the fact that his is literally sanding his tail down over time, this suggests to me that he does not feel pain.

perhaps lower life do not feel pain. animals like cats dogs and elephants sure to though. if i accidently step on my dogs paw (which happens from time to time) she goes yelping into the living room and licks her paw.

 

[PETsMARTchick]

It's good to know that they don't feel too much pain. Unfortunately, I'm one of the people who do that whole personification thing, and put myself in animal's shoes and picture them as little people. I'm the woman that cried when my little brother stepped on a caterpillar when I was little, and cried when I saw live frogs for sale as food in Chinatown, and try to save slugs from being stepped on. I just love animals so much. And I just can't euthanize them. It might be what's best, but I can't bring myself to kill them. Luckily I've been desensitized when it comes to fish sickness and death because of my job.

 

[steppy104]

well...that was very interesting to know....thanks for bringing that to everyones attention

 

[Acrus]

As everyone above has said, i agree that they do feel pain, but yes it definatly is much different then us. the Lower life forms, some don't even have the means to feel anything, becasue of the lack of nerves. But even when you start building up into higher life, there are many that only have a nerve net, which provided basic responses.

But I look at fish like this, Ever cut you finger? what feels best? Running it in cool water, it numbs the pain. and if water has this effect on humans, think what it must be like for fish wich have by far less nerve endings.

 

[Opcn]

I dont think they are that instinctual as to not feel pain and only have it as another sensation. With out all those anthropomorfic emotional addons we give our fish (lonely brokenhearted empty nesters ect) pain is definitly the worst sensation they can feel and however cognescent they are is however bad it feels .

Csr at my elementery school (Many years ago) there was a retarted kid named Stephan Carmack who always had open sores on his hands and he didn't have any strange desease or anything he just continually picked at them he knew it hurt nd he knew what he did was causeing the pain but he was wired wrong so he kept picking at them your platy could be in a similar situation.

No matter how much or little pain they feel we still need to do all we can to make sure they feel none or atleast dont feel any at our hands that means useing proper techniques for euthenasia I really think it was a bad Idea to post this artical because while it may be very truthful indead some idiot is going to take it as license to do a live disection on a sick fish w/o antistetic or boil there fish to death.

JMHO

Opcn