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the biffster

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rite as it say what is exactly in that
bottle that says filter start on
it is it bacteria is it nutrients
or a source of ammonia and how come
some people find it works for them
and some say it doesn't so lets
hear your accounts on using if you have
and tell us what you think is in
these filter starters lets make it a light
hearted please :good:
 
Bacteria in a bottle?
Unlikely to work anyway, since they'd need food whilst in transit and then whilst on the shelf.
The majority of patents say that the bacteria have to leave the factory live, they say nothing about it reaching its destination live.

Also:

"Most of these products actually contain species of Heterotrophic bacteria from the genera Bacillus, Pseudomonas, Escherichia, and others (as these bacteria are much easier packaged with a reasonable shelf life under normal conditions/room temperatures).


True nitrifying bacteria are Autotrophic and considered to be those belonging to the family Nitrobacteraceae whose energy sources are derived from the chemical conversion of ammonia to nitrite, or, nitrite to nitrate (Autotrophic bacteria are organisms that produce complex organic compounds from simple inorganic molecules). They require oxygen, utilize mostly inorganic (without carbon) compounds as their energy source, and require carbon dioxide (CO2) for their source of carbon. In the case of the Nitrobacteraceae these energy sources are derived from the chemical conversion of ammonia to nitrite, or, nitrite to nitrate. "


Taken from:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Nitrogen_Cycle.html

My own personal experience shows that these products don't work, but there's no way in telling if they did or not. If you did use a bottle, you can't prove it did nothing or that it did anything as there is no control group and cannot be one, well there can, but not to the degree that we would like.

However, I have had positive experiences with things that "help" bacteria grow, such as Bactozym by Tetra and Biomature by Waterlife.
 
rite as it say what is exactly in that
bottle that says filter start on
it is it bacteria is it nutrients
or a source of ammonia and how come
some people find it works for them
and some say it doesn't so lets
hear your accounts on using if you have
and tell us what you think is in
these filter starters lets make it a light
hearted please :good:

a good idea, but what will it achieve?
anecdotal evidence is the most unreliable type.
the mere fact some find it works and some dont, precludes it working at all. you need over 90% success to claim a product works. would you buy an electronic lamp, that only switched on one in every ten times you tried it. come to that, if it switched on nine out of ten times? you wouldn't, because it clearly does not do its job. why then should cycle products get more leeway?

I understand some, desperately want it to work. i can see how embarrassed some my be, if they are convinced it does. i even understand the naivete of those who think "big companies wouldn't lie".

but nobody has offered a single shred of proof these things work. and the refusal of makers and sellers to provide tests to underline their claims, only ascents how sceptical we should be.

we could to our own test.
a member sets up, two tanks, both identical. one has a fishless cycle one one has a "cycle start" cycle. you then post your results. but even then, the test needs to do the same on the next members tanks, and the next and the next and the next, and on. if ten members do it it has to work on a minimum of 8, to say it helps. if we get nine, anecdotal evidence then comes into play.

ultimately this should be done by the maker. whilst they refuse, we can be nothing but sceptical of their claims. because businesses do lie, its a basic part of selling.
 
as from the other thread that is still going, no they don't work, there is no way imaginable way that they could work. Suspended or not, bacteria cannot survive without a food source (fact). As also stated in the other thread, if it works for a couple of people, it's not proof that they really work. I personally think these people have a good fish in cycle.

the only real evidence that these thing work come from the scientists who are paid by the manufacturer who makes them. This makes the evidence 'voided' and worthless in scientific circles.
 
surely they cant sell this
product saying it does things
when it as never been proved
if they did this would be fraud

so it could just be a bottle
of ammonia and water
 
EU law covers things like Yacult and the other yoghurt base drinks, by saying that the bacteria has to be 'live' when leaving the factory. It's out of their hands then. I'm sure these products are covered in pretty much the same way. After a few hours the bacteria in the yoghurt based drinks diminish by quite a large amount. It was a couple of years ago since i researched these (it was part of a uni module), so i'm not sure where research is not with these products, i'll have a check around at some point.
 
Hello Biffster,
From all the debates i read on the forum i get the impression that these bacteria in a bottle(filter start) don't work. The one point that keeps cropping up is how can these bacterias in a bottle get a source of Ammonia to keep them alive. So my suggestion to the manufactures of bacteria in a bottle would have the A&N bacs in a container which inside had two chambers that slowly released some ammonia and oxygen, BUT this would present a problem of shelf life.
Anyway enough of my dribble.

Skins.
 
One of the shops I used was trying to sell me a "mirical" tank starting product in a bottle claiming that you can add it to the tank and add fish after 2 days :blink: .
 
One of the shops I used was trying to sell me a "mirical" tank starting product in a bottle claiming that you can add it to the tank and add fish after 2 days :blink: .


i heard of that one star
or something similar as
anybody tried looking for
this on the Internet
 
Hello Biffster,
From all the debates i read on the forum i get the impression that these bacteria in a bottle(filter start) don't work. The one point that keeps cropping up is how can these bacterias in a bottle get a source of Ammonia to keep them alive. So my suggestion to the manufactures of bacteria in a bottle would have the A&N bacs in a container which inside had two chambers that slowly released some ammonia and oxygen, BUT this would present a problem of shelf life.
Anyway enough of my dribble.

Skins.


I can see your way of thinking here, but it still wouldn't work in theory, as 99% of our bacteria live in a place of fast flow, this also cannot be provided in a bottle, unless we get the YTS boy to shake the bottles on regular intervals. :lol:
 
Hello Biffster,
From all the debates i read on the forum i get the impression that these bacteria in a bottle(filter start) don't work. The one point that keeps cropping up is how can these bacterias in a bottle get a source of Ammonia to keep them alive. So my suggestion to the manufactures of bacteria in a bottle would have the A&N bacs in a container which inside had two chambers that slowly released some ammonia and oxygen, BUT this would present a problem of shelf life.
Anyway enough of my dribble.

Skins.


I can see your way of thinking here, but it still wouldn't work in theory, as 99% of our bacteria live in a place of fast flow, this also cannot be provided in a bottle, unless we get the YTS boy to shake the bottles on regular intervals. :lol:


:rofl: i know what you mean ian but
surely they as to be something in the bottle
it might not be Bactria but maybe just
a trigger it like saying you believe in something
but you never see it like take ghosts

the guy laughing on the floor
is for the yts shaking bottles
part of IDS big plan to get every
of the dole and back in to work
 
Hello Biffster,
From all the debates i read on the forum i get the impression that these bacteria in a bottle(filter start) don't work. The one point that keeps cropping up is how can these bacterias in a bottle get a source of Ammonia to keep them alive. So my suggestion to the manufactures of bacteria in a bottle would have the A&N bacs in a container which inside had two chambers that slowly released some ammonia and oxygen, BUT this would present a problem of shelf life.
Anyway enough of my dribble.

Skins.


I can see your way of thinking here, but it still wouldn't work in theory, as 99% of our bacteria live in a place of fast flow, this also cannot be provided in a bottle, unless we get the YTS boy to shake the bottles on regular intervals. :lol:


:rofl: i know what you mean ian but
surely they as to be something in the bottle
it might not be Bactria but maybe just
a trigger it like saying you believe in something
but you never see it like take ghosts

the guy laughing on the floor
is for the yts shaking bottles
part of IDS big plan to get every
of the dole and back in to work
Looks like he's drunk it lol
 
I always like to keep an open mind when it comes to things like this, but until it is proven scientifically, i can't believe they work. I have read so many stories of fish deaths due to these products being used.


BTW i might just email Hagen and the likes making a suggestion about the getting people off the dole :lol:
 
I always like to keep an open mind when it comes to things like this, but until it is proven scientifically, i can't believe they work. I have read so many stories of fish deaths due to these products being used.


BTW i might just email Hagen and the likes making a suggestion about the getting people off the dole :lol:


might just be worth emailing the three
top companies and get all the bumf
on filter start products
and compare them
 
One of the shops I used was trying to sell me a "mirical" tank starting product in a bottle claiming that you can add it to the tank and add fish after 2 days :blink: .


i heard of that one star
or something similar as
anybody tried looking for
this on the Internet

I did but I have no idea who makes it or what its called. I have this really bad habbit of just smilling and nodding but paying no attention what so ever when someone is trying to sell me somthing I dont want.
 

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