Emergency- Lost Some Cardinals

[supermonkey]

Hi All,

Hopefully I won't miss any info out, but please let me know if I do. Sorry for the length!

Tank is about 100 litres, 3 live plants and some ornaments for hiding places. Fluval U3 filter and E100 heater. Am using Seacheme Prime conditioner.

After reading great reviews of Seachem Stability, I gave this a go along with Prime (as it also reduces ammonia). I added my first fish about a month ago - 6 guppies, 2 bristlenose & 2 dwarf gouramies. I was confident the Stability & Prime had worked as they all looked perfectly healthy.

I left it about a month and on wednesday added more fish, but possibly got a little carried away as I got 8 cardinal tetras, 4 more guppies, 2 mollys & 3 very small red platys. I didn't want the ammonia to spike so I have been adding Prime to detoxify it & Stablity as it mentions it's usefullyness when adding new fish. Unfortunately, I had not done a water change in 2 weeks and I thought it best not to do one too quickly after adding fish.

Yesterday I noticed small white spots on one of the original guppies and his tail looked a little tatty. I assumed it was fin rot and applied some Myxazin.

Early this afternoon I looked over at the tank and thought "where are the cardinals". On closer inspection, I found 5 dead hidden in a plant. 1 was still alive, with some small white spots and I spent ages looking for the other 2 with no success.

I then did a 50% water change thinking that poor water was the likely cause. Whilst adding the new water, another dead cardinal appeared but I'm still not sure where he came from.

This evening I noticed that the live cardinal was having trouble with his bouyancy and the flow from the filter was sending him everwhere (have even got a video if it is helpful). Under duress from the mrs we put him out of his misery. I had a good look at the dead cardinals and some had rotted or chewed looking tails, missing eyes and pop eye.

I have since been told Cardinals do not fair well in new tanks. I guess the Ammonia spiked with arrival of new fish?

I'm just not sure what to do now. I have no idea where the last cardinal is. Have even checked the filter!

I really don't want to lose another fish. Am feeling really demotivated now. Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[onebto]

Hey really sorry to hear of your loss.

There maybe some more info that is required for the people who can help sort this problem out and give you a subjective reason why it happened.

Okay so what's the history of the tank how long have you had it?

How did you cycle it?

What are your water stats Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ph and Temperature and how are you measuring them I.E LFS (local fish shop), test strips or chemical test kit (make)?

Until these bits of info are available it is really hard to paint a complete picture of the situation I will say though Cardinal tetra are fantastic looking fish but they really do need QUALITY clean water and a reasonably mature tank, that was alot of fish to add at one time.

 

[iffles]

probably an ammonia spike caused most of it, but just guessing from the large number of fish you put in, need test results to confirm. the Prime probably isn't as good as they describe - it prevents the filter from catching up with the extra bioload or catching up as fast and will create unstable conditions (fluctuating ammonia). are there still any problems (eg sick fish) livebearers are usually quite hardy fish, so should pull through with good care. you should probably add the cardinals last after about 4-6months.

 

[supermonkey]

thanks for your replies.

Tank has been running about 6 weeks. Tried cycling with Seachem Stability for a couple of weeks before adding the first fish and used more of this along with additional does of Prime when adding the 2nd batch about a month later.

Since I'm a budget, I didn't get a test kit thinking Stability & Prime would keep things controlled. I think had I added fish more gradually and done more regular water changes, I'd probably be ok. When I got the Cardinals, I was not aware of the recommendation of waiting 6 months.

The remaining fish - guppies, gouramies, mollies, platys & bristlenose seem to behaving normally.

So would you advise to keep dosing with Myxazin? Should I add extra Prime to keep ammonia low or will this just prevent bacteria builing up in the filter. I didn't feed yesterday, should I keep fasting them?

Grrr, still can't find the 8th cardinal, have checked everyhwere! getting concerned as the rot cant help with the water quality

 

[WILDER]

Remove the myxazin with a water change and black carbon.

If the spots are the size of a grain of salt your fish have whitespot.

Raise temp to 30 and increase aeration.
Remove black carbon after aday and add the whitespot med.
Make sure you can use the full dose with the fish you keep.

Finrot is common on top of whitespot. Also it can be caused by bad water quality.

Water changes and increase aeration till the tanks cycled.
If you have to preform a water change during a med course, just add the correct amount of med back to water removed.

 

[supermonkey]

Remove the myxazin with a water change and black carbon.

If the spots are the size of a grain of salt your fish have whitespot.

Raise temp to 30 and increase aeration.
Remove black carbon after aday and add the whitespot med.
Make sure you can use the full dose with the fish you keep.

Finrot is common on top of whitespot. Also it can be caused by bad water quality.

Water changes and increase aeration till the tanks cycled.
If you have to preform a water change during a med course, just add the correct amount of med back to water removed.

hi, thanks for your reply.

The white spots are tiny and I think just on the tail fins. Spotted it on all three platys & the female mollie. the guppys that i first saw white spot on looks fine now!?!? maybe the myxazin or water change (or combination) helped?

wont 30 degrees be too hot for some of the fish? Use the venturi at highest settig. Only have the carbon media that I took out of the filter just before adding myxazin. What white spot med would you recommend (uk fish keeper here).

will do another water change tonight then, hopefully that may also reveal the cardinals location. Should I be feeding them?

Thanks

 

[WILDER]

Myxazin does have malachite green in the med. But not sure how much.
Malachite green treats whitespot.

Anti whitespot med by interpet.

As long as there plenty of aeration in the tank the fish should be fine with the high temp.

Just feed sparingly.

 

[supermonkey]

Myxazin does have malachite green in the med. But not sure how much.
Malachite green treats whitespot.

Anti whitespot med by interpet.

As long as there plenty of aeration in the tank the fish should be fine with the high temp.

Just feed sparingly.

Ok, if I can get hold of anti whitespot I will, otherwise I'll keep going with myxazin. It did say white spot on it. Can I ask why the high temp?

Thanks

 

[WILDER]

You only raise temp once you have gotten the med.
The higher temp speeds the life cycle of the parasite up.

 

[supermonkey]

Hi,

Not been able to get hold of any other meds, would you recommend to dose with Myxazin? I stopped after the last recommendation. Is there another way to remove the meds as my carbon pads had been in the tank a few weeks and I have no spare?

I've been feeding them a little just once a day and doing regular water changes.

another question i have - prime is very converted, 1ml per 40l of water, makes it hard to since my tank is only 100l. is it ok when just topping up after evaporation to not treat?

am also now a bit confused re stocking. Based on a book I have, the tank is fine, but going by the 1cm fish for each litre i think i'll be over when they're fully grown.

Thanks

 

[WILDER]

You need to buy a whitespot med. Some new black carbon.

Remove the carbon it dosn't work after 2 to 9 days.


For now just keep doing water changes till you get the med.
You need to get a med fast as once whitespot affects the gills the fish don't make it.

When buying fish you have to take in to account there adult size.
Usually its one inch per gallon.

Your water stats will also tell you if your filter not coping with all the fish in the tank.

 

[supermonkey]

You need to buy a whitespot med. Some new black carbon.

Remove the carbon it dosn't work after 2 to 9 days.


For now just keep doing water changes till you get the med.
You need to get a med fast as once whitespot affects the gills the fish don't make it.

When buying fish you have to take in to account there adult size.
Usually its one inch per gallon.

Your water stats will also tell you if your filter not coping with all the fish in the tank.

Ok, I'll try to get some white spot med tommorow.

The seachem Stability says something about using with after meds, perhaps it helps to remove it? What harm can meds do if left in the tank?

 

[WILDER]

Some meds break down on there own.
Just loads of water changes and gravel vacs to get the med out of the tank.

I always use black carbon to be on the safe side after using meds.

 

[supermonkey]

Hi again,

The fish seem to be doing better now!

Still concerned about the stocking. It doesn't look too much, but based on the 1 inch per gallon rule I'm over.

Stocking is:
2 Bristlenose = 11" (these are tiny at the moment)
10 guppies = 15-20"
2 Mollies = 7"
3 Platys = 4-7" (smallest fish inthe tank so far)
2 Dwarf Gouramies = 4"

lengths are totals (not each fish!). i'm hoping that i've over estimated the sizes!

 

[WILDER]

Stocking looks fine.
But don't add anymore fish as will be pushing it.