Cycling Is Making Me Pull Out My Hair

[confused mermaid]

I set up a new 46 gallon aquarium, tried to follow all of the instructions of cycling. Started out with fish food and did that for two weeks, then my smaller tank gave out so I was forced to transfer my fish into the larger aquarium when it was not quite through the cycle. I have two glass fish, three dwarf gouramis, three ghost catfish, two upsidedown fish, two Kuhli loaches and a betta in the tank (yes, the betta loves his tankmates) I know this sounds like a lot of fish but they are very small relative to the size of the tank. I test every day and nothing has happened that would indicate that it is cycling normally. First of all, we have well water, so I am not sure how that affects the water. I used a water conditioner after I set up the tank.

Every day the ammonia is high, and there are no indication at all of Nitrites OR Nitrates. The PH, the hardness and everything else is high. I added the recommended amount of aquarium salt, then added a little more. I added an ammonia treatment a few days later, then a few days after that I added some stress zyme, (cycle treatment) I haven't tested today yet, but I really don't want to keep throwing a bunch of different chemicals in my tank. I haven't lost any fish yet, but I really don't want to start. IF SOMEONE CAN PLEASE GIVE ME ADVISE TO WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON AND HOW I CAN FIX IT I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT! I got into this hobby cuz I thought it was fun and relaxing and aesthetically pleasing but it is SO stressing me out!

Thank You

Confused Mermaid

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there and welcome to the beginners section!

You're absolutely right! You don't want to be thowing all those chemicals in there. Stop!

What's going on is that you are in what we call a "Fish-In Cycling Situation." Its a known thing and we help people with it every day here. No need to stress.

A 46g is a nice big aquarium! Tell us exactly what your test kit is (manufacturer/model). Its going to be very important for you to have a good liquid-reagent-based test kit. Its also going to be important for you to have good water changing technique. In your case conditioner may not be needed, as no one is adding chlorine or chloramine to your well water but on the other hand it would not hurt at all to use a really good conditioner like Seachem Prime for some of the other good things it can do. I also think rough temperature matching (your hand is good enough) is a good thing for larger water changes when your tank is new and the bacterial colonies are new like yours are.

Take a look at the Fish-In and Nitrogen Cycle articles in our Beginners Resource Center tonight and then post up about your kit and your new questions. If you're showing any ammonia or nitrite(NO2) in your current results (and I see you've said ammonia is showing up but not told us a number) then water changes, pretty large ones, are going to be pretty urgent.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[confused mermaid]

Hi there and welcome to the beginners section!

You're absolutely right! You don't want to be thowing all those chemicals in there. Stop!

What's going on is that you are in what we call a "Fish-In Cycling Situation." Its a known thing and we help people with it every day here. No need to stress.

A 46g is a nice big aquarium! Tell us exactly what your test kit is (manufacturer/model). Its going to be very important for you to have a good liquid-reagent-based test kit. Its also going to be important for you to have good water changing technique. In your case conditioner may not be needed, as no one is adding chlorine or chloramine to your well water but on the other hand it would not hurt at all to use a really good conditioner like Seachem Prime for some of the other good things it can do. I also think rough temperature matching (your hand is good enough) is a good thing for larger water changes when your tank is new and the bacterial colonies are new like yours are.

Take a look at the Fish-In and Nitrogen Cycle articles in our Beginners Resource Center tonight and then post up about your kit and your new questions. If you're showing any ammonia or nitrite(NO2) in your current results (and I see you've said ammonia is showing up but not told us a number) then water changes, pretty large ones, are going to be pretty urgent.

~~waterdrop~~

Ok, read through everything...that helped a little. I mean, I have done hours of research on the net, so I understood that I'm kinda stuck in the beginning part of the cycle, but that made it a little more clear. I forgot to look at the test kits this morning, but they are both strip test kits (which I now know are bad I have a seperate one for ammonia and then a 5 in one. I will look for this API master test kit, but I live in the states and have never seen it. Perhaps I can order it online. Another question i have is that even though we have well water, we also have a water softner. I used the hose (which I believe doesn't filter through the softner) outside to fill the tank. However in the winter this will not be possible for my water changes. I read the contents on the bag of salt that goes in the softner that our water filters through, and it seems to be just salt and no other chemicals. I don't think the levels are horribly high, but just checking to see if anyone has experience with this and if I should get something specialized besides water conditioner. In the mean time, I will do a 25-30% water change this weekend to see if I can get that ammonia outta there and work on getting the better test kit. Is there anything else I can do?

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there and welcome to the beginners section!

You're absolutely right! You don't want to be thowing all those chemicals in there. Stop!

What's going on is that you are in what we call a "Fish-In Cycling Situation." Its a known thing and we help people with it every day here. No need to stress.

A 46g is a nice big aquarium! Tell us exactly what your test kit is (manufacturer/model). Its going to be very important for you to have a good liquid-reagent-based test kit. Its also going to be important for you to have good water changing technique. In your case conditioner may not be needed, as no one is adding chlorine or chloramine to your well water but on the other hand it would not hurt at all to use a really good conditioner like Seachem Prime for some of the other good things it can do. I also think rough temperature matching (your hand is good enough) is a good thing for larger water changes when your tank is new and the bacterial colonies are new like yours are.

Take a look at the Fish-In and Nitrogen Cycle articles in our Beginners Resource Center tonight and then post up about your kit and your new questions. If you're showing any ammonia or nitrite(NO2) in your current results (and I see you've said ammonia is showing up but not told us a number) then water changes, pretty large ones, are going to be pretty urgent.

~~waterdrop~~

Ok, read through everything...that helped a little. I mean, I have done hours of research on the net, so I understood that I'm kinda stuck in the beginning part of the cycle, but that made it a little more clear. I forgot to look at the test kits this morning, but they are both strip test kits (which I now know are bad I have a seperate one for ammonia and then a 5 in one. I will look for this API master test kit, but I live in the states and have never seen it. Perhaps I can order it online. Another question i have is that even though we have well water, we also have a water softner. I used the hose (which I believe doesn't filter through the softner) outside to fill the tank. However in the winter this will not be possible for my water changes. I read the contents on the bag of salt that goes in the softner that our water filters through, and it seems to be just salt and no other chemicals. I don't think the levels are horribly high, but just checking to see if anyone has experience with this and if I should get something specialized besides water conditioner. In the mean time, I will do a 25-30% water change this weekend to see if I can get that ammonia outta there and work on getting the better test kit. Is there anything else I can do?

OK, good, you're on the right track. Those paper strip tests are not going to cut it. If you're like me you'll just call or drop by all the PetSmarts, PetCos, LFSs, etc. near you and try to find that kit. It that doesn't work its quite common among USA onlines like BigAls, Drdfostersmith etc. and you're correct, its called API Freshwater Master Test Kit., little tray with a bunch of white plastic bottles, glass test tubes etc. .... Meanwhile since you don't know the real water chems, you're begin too conservative.. you need to be changing at least 50% per day (this is the pain of a fish-in situation) until you can get good measurements and hopefully find out you can do less than that.

I don't know the best answer about the house softener system. Perhaps another member OM47 will see this and comment or perhaps another member familiar with what to do in these cases will come along. We'll get that sorted out eventually.

Once you get your kit the idea is to be a bit of a detective and figure out what percentage and frequency of water changes will keep the ammonia and nitrite(NO2) levels from being able to rise past 0.25ppm by the next time you are able to get home and test them and potentially perform another water change. Normally people like to establish two test times, morning and evening that are 12 hours apart and for which they'll likely be home for both, like 8am and 8pm if that works. Sometimes when you first start this process it takes a couple of strong water changes in a row (they have to be at least an hour apart) to get the poisons down near zero and from then on they will seem to rise more slowly and you can get a handle on it and not need to change so often, just depends how many fish are in a particular sized tank and whether they produce a lot of waste. You'll want to be feeding lightly, only once per day and only what they can consume in 2 or 3 minutes and you can skip a day every now and then. With a 46g I think you'll get it under control.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Whitester]

Hang in there!!! I am very new too! I am also doing a "fish-in-cycle" grrr... It is frustrating, but it is something we both must do to save the fish. Right now I have been running my 40 gal tank for 9 days. I have to do a 50% water change every day. Today was the first time I did it once in the morning and once in the evening. The reason I did it twice, was I fed some of my fish blood worms(the other day) because I hadn't seen them eat, due the the greedy other fish. LOL! I have about 10 inches of fish in my tank, all very small, all under 1 inch each. I think the un eaten blood worms caused more ammonia. I have been able to keep my ammonia levels to .25ppm. Also, I know some recommend to get mature filter media, but I was unable to get the actual filter media. I went to my LFS and they squeezed several foam filters out in a bag. Within 15 mins of them giving me the water with the filter foams rinsed out in the bag, I had the water in my tank. Some say it wont help much. But I figured what the heck I might as well give it a try. If it cuts my water changing down by 1 week then I will be happy.

So hang in there, the relaxing part will come soon. I swear I sit infront of my tank now for atleast 1 to 2 hours a day just watching the fish swim around.

 

[waterdrop]

Hang in there!!! I am very new too! I am also doing a "fish-in-cycle" grrr... It is frustrating, but it is something we both must do to save the fish. Right now I have been running my 40 gal tank for 9 days. I have to do a 50% water change every day. Today was the first time I did it once in the morning and once in the evening. The reason I did it twice, was I fed some of my fish blood worms(the other day) because I hadn't seen them eat, due the the greedy other fish. LOL! I have about 10 inches of fish in my tank, all very small, all under 1 inch each. I think the un eaten blood worms caused more ammonia. I have been able to keep my ammonia levels to .25ppm. Also, I know some recommend to get mature filter media, but I was unable to get the actual filter media. I went to my LFS and they squeezed several foam filters out in a bag. Within 15 mins of them giving me the water with the filter foams rinsed out in the bag, I had the water in my tank. Some say it wont help much. But I figured what the heck I might as well give it a try. If it cuts my water changing down by 1 week then I will be happy.

So hang in there, the relaxing part will come soon. I swear I sit infront of my tank now for atleast 1 to 2 hours a day just watching the fish swim around.

Yes, as you've found out, definately not a great time for fish treats! During a fish-in situation its better to feed quite lightly with flake food. The fish will be fine. There will be plenty of chances in the months and years that follow to give them the occasional treat. Bloodworms are so rich that they're even a bit tricky for the health of the fish at times! Great though that you've chimed in to enourage our new fish-in cycler, it sometimes takes all of us to keep people going.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Mermaid.

Fish in cycling is the way we all used to do things before we figured out that fishless was better. Many thousands of tanks have been fish-in cycled with no ill effects. These days I prefer to fishless cycle a new tank but the old ways still work fine so don't get too stressed. Once you get a decent test kit, you can change just enough water each day to keep the ammonia and nitrites from climbing above 0.25 ppm each day before the water change. After a few changes you will get a feel for how much that is. As WD said, your best friend is a partial water change. If you do not have a test kit, I would do at least a 50% daily water change until you can get that kit. It may allow you to cut back a bit on the water changes based on test results right before the water change. The Prime or similar name brand water treatment does more than dechlorinate, it reduces the toxicity of metals that might be found in your water. My water source from the village where I live comes from their wells but is treated with chemicals to make it "safe for human consumption". The problem is that people can tolerate huge amounts of chlorine but fish can't.

You are correct to try to bypass the water softener in your system. A water softener substitutes sodium salts for calcium and magnesium salts. It removes nothing but the calcium and magnesium that your plants might use. A softener also raises total dissolved solids because sodium is a single charge ion, Na+, while calcium or magnesium are double charge ions, Ca++ or Mg++. That means that for sodium to replace the magnesium, it must add 2 ions for each magnesium ion that started out in the water. We often talk about fish that prefer soft water but in reality we are talking about fish that do better in low total dissolved solids water. A "water softener" does just the opposite and raises TDS in the water. It does soften water in the terms that are usually meant by people that want softer water. It makes soap dissolve easier and reduces the likelihood that you will get "hard water deposits" in your water system. Unfortunately that is not the issue that "soft water fish" face in our aquariums.

 

[confused mermaid]

Went and found the API kit and I felt like I was in chemical science class all weekend. In fact, my right arm is getting muscular. Anyway, of course I left my notebook with my results at home today but I don't know how my fish are alive...they all seem ok and content still, but I am still worried. I did 25% water change Friday night and last night. I tested Friday through Sunday morning. If I remember correctly, my ammonia level stays at 1.0 My ph is 8. My nitrates are almost nothing and my Nitrites are at a 2. I can't remember if I have the last two right so I will post it tomorrow. Forgoing the water softner water is possible for now because I can use the spiggot outside (though last night I did use sink water). In the winter however I will be forced to use sink water all the time. It's a private well and I read over the water reports, it doesn't seem like there were a lot of harsh chemicals. I use water conditioner with every change just in case. I will test tonight again when i return. Unfortunately for now I can only manage a 25% water change each day because I can't seem to find a decent hose that will go from my sink to the tank. I have a good heater and thermometer and I judge water temp pretty well when I am refilling the tank. I don't have the ability to let the water sit either before I refill as I don't have a receptacle that I can lift up to the tank. I have been saving water jugs. I fill them and let them set for a few minutes then haul them over to the tank, but at about 15 gallons a change thats a real pain and takes over an hour. I can't imagine doing half a tank till I get that hose! How do you guys refill yours? Keep giving the advise please!

Confused Mermaid

 

[arobinson1984]

I'm guessing it will be your nitrItes at 2 as nitrates may not have shown up yet apart from trace amounts that MAY be in your water, I'm not sure if nitrates are present in well water??

Anyway, you will need to do larger water changes than 25%, You need to get the levels of ammonia and nitrItes down below 0.25ppm and keep them there as at the moment the levels are too high and will be affecting the fish's health.

I know its a pain as I was stuck in a fish in cycle before finding this site, but it is worth it in the end

Keep up the water changes but do larger ones and things should be

I use a python system that I got sent to me in the Uk from the USA, they aren't cheap but make water changes so much easier.

Check the link Python

Andy

 

[Fisses]

hi welcome to the site.....

i too ended up ina fish in cycle(through no fault of mine but poor instructions from manufacturer) and you just have to stick with it.

it WILL be frustrating doing daily water changes with tests every single day, but once your at the stage when you mcan sit back and enjoy it you'll be so glad you stuck with it.

but your in good hands with this lot who will be here for support whenever you need it just like i have done when i first strted out

best of luck

 

[confused mermaid]

Here are my results for the last 3 days


Ammonia PH Nitrite Nitrate

1.0 8.1 .50 2.0

1.0 8.2 1.0 2.0

.25 8.2 2.0 5.0

I couldn't find one of our little glass fish this morning. He is much smaller than the other glass fish and his spine was twisted (like that when we bought him) but he is our favorite because of his disabilities. We have had him for about 3 months now and I always thought there was probably something wrong with him because he didn't grow like the other glass fish, but if it's the cycling that killed him I shall be very upset! I'm going to try to find him again tonight when I do my water change.

Any more suggestions?

 

[Fisses]

from what i can see (and from my little knowledge) it looks like youve had your ammonia spike which has slowly come down, and now your about to get your nitrite spike.

when you get results of

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate (can be 0 or even 20)

then thats when your tank has finished cycling.

PH does seem a little on the high side but ive read somewhere that this can happen when cycling a tank.

looks like your on the right tracks though.

 

[confused mermaid]

from what i can see (and from my little knowledge) it looks like youve had your ammonia spike which has slowly come down, and now your about to get your nitrite spike.

when you get results of

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate (can be 0 or even 20)

then thats when your tank has finished cycling.

PH does seem a little on the high side but ive read somewhere that this can happen when cycling a tank.

looks like your on the right tracks though.

THANK GOODNESS!!!!

 

[razer121]

i am feeling your pain....im currently going through a fish cycle and i belive ive got an ammonia spike changing the water is a pain and to top it of i have a pregnant molly in the tank!! oh the pain...

 

[arobinson1984]

PH is actually at a good level for cycling as the bacteria thrive at a slightly higher PH.

I recommedn you up your water changes becuase as mentioned you are getting your nitrIte spike at the moment and nitrIte tends to be even more poisonous to fish than ammonia so you really need to keep the levels at at zero or an absolute maximum of 0.25ppm, whereas at the moment they are at 2 which is too high.

Andy