Curious!

[JenCliBee]

Hi all,

Just wanted to ask a question becasue forthe life of me im baffled lol (easily done)

Rite when doing a fishless cycle, if the PH drops/crashes it stalls the cycle so the bacteria will stop processing ammonia etc etc, well what happens if u have a cycled tank already and PH drops to the point of a stall on its own how does the ammonia get processed?, for instance my tap water is PH 7 but within a couple of days it drops to PH 6 becasu i have no buffering compasity in my tap water, if i was doing a fishless cycle my cycle would stall rite? so why doesnt an establish filter stall and stop processing ammonia if the PH gets to say 6 (stall level).

Hope this made sense lol

jen

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Hi all,

Just wanted to ask a question becasue forthe life of me im baffled lol (easily done)

Rite when doing a fishless cycle, if the PH drops/crashes it stalls the cycle so the bacteria will stop processing ammonia etc etc, well what happens if u have a cycled tank already and PH drops to the point of a stall on its own how does the ammonia get processed?, for instance my tap water is PH 7 but within a couple of days it drops to PH 6 becasu i have no buffering compasity in my tap water, if i was doing a fishless cycle my cycle would stall rite? so why doesnt an establish filter stall and stop processing ammonia if the PH gets to say 6 (stall level).

Hope this made sense lol

jen

This is the only thing I can think of, but I think it has to get lower then 6 to stall if I am correct. I believe the reason why it stops is because if you get the pH low enough and very acidic, it will kill your bacteria colony. That's the only reason why I would think the pH would stop a cycle. When it happens in a tank you do it slowly, and another bacteria will build up that will take care of the nitrogen in your tank, if not slowly your fish are dead, so no worries about nitrogen.

But I am pretty sure you need to drop the pH to 4 or 4.5 before this new bacteria develops and the other bacteria dies.

Could be very wrong though

 

[JenCliBee]

Hi all,

Just wanted to ask a question becasue forthe life of me im baffled lol (easily done)

Rite when doing a fishless cycle, if the PH drops/crashes it stalls the cycle so the bacteria will stop processing ammonia etc etc, well what happens if u have a cycled tank already and PH drops to the point of a stall on its own how does the ammonia get processed?, for instance my tap water is PH 7 but within a couple of days it drops to PH 6 becasu i have no buffering compasity in my tap water, if i was doing a fishless cycle my cycle would stall rite? so why doesnt an establish filter stall and stop processing ammonia if the PH gets to say 6 (stall level).

Hope this made sense lol

jen

This is the only thing I can think of, but I think it has to get lower then 6 to stall if I am correct. I believe the reason why it stops is because if you get the pH low enough and very acidic, it will kill your bacteria colony. That's the only reason why I would think the pH would stop a cycle. When it happens in a tank you do it slowly, and another bacteria will build up that will take care of the nitrogen in your tank, if not slowly your fish are dead, so no worries about nitrogen.

But I am pretty sure you need to drop the pH to 4 or 4.5 before this new bacteria develops and the other bacteria dies.

Could be very wrong though

But in a lot of fishless cycle threads its always reffered/implied to as if the ph gets lower than say 6.4 ur risking a cycle stalling.

 

[loraxchick]

if the pH falls enough even on an established tank, the cycle IS interrupted...its called old tank syndrome (which also has other things going on besides pH)...but it can and does happen.

 

[JenCliBee]

if the pH falls enough even on an established tank, the cycle IS interrupted...its called old tank syndrome (which also has other things going on besides pH)...but it can and does happen.

Interupted in which way?

Bit of background.... i have very soft water which wont hold a PH at all, within a day my PH 7 tap water drops to the lowest colour on the API test kit chart so it mite actually be lower than the 6 it shows. My fish are healthy but it got me thinking that if my PH drops below 6 but not as low as 4.5 as DL mentioned then whats my bacteria actaully doing? is it slowing breaking ammonia down or not breaking it down at all?

Im thinking that big water changes is actually or might actually start affecting fish..ie dropping PH 7 tap water into a possible below PH 6 tank.

 

[fatheadminnow]

If you pH is dropping to 6, that is not good and action should be taken.

Anyways, when a pH drops down to 6, your beneficial bacteria do not die off, instead they merely "reside." They go into a dormant state.

Then when the pH is back up, they "come back to life" and process ammonia and nitrite again.

How often do you do water changes? As when you do water changes, it brings the pH back up, and that might be the only time when you bacteria process ammonia and nitrite.

Also, a pH that "swings" that much is probably not good for the fish. You said that your fish are fine, and this could very well be true, but I am 100% sure that this pH swing is effecting them in some way, just maybe not in a way that is visible to us.

But I would try to figure out a way to keep your pH from dropping that much, try adding crush coral to the filter.

-FHM

 

[JenCliBee]

If you pH is dropping to 6, that is not good and action should be taken.

Anyways, when a pH drops down to 6, your beneficial bacteria do not die off, instead they merely "reside." They go into a dormant state.

Then when the pH is back up, they "come back to life" and process ammonia and nitrite again.

How often do you do water changes? As when you do water changes, it brings the pH back up, and that might be the only time when you bacteria process ammonia and nitrite.

Also, a pH that "swings" that much is probably not good for the fish. You said that your fish are fine, and this could very well be true, but I am 100% sure that this pH swing is effecting them in some way, just maybe not in a way that is visible to us.

But I would try to figure out a way to keep your pH from dropping that much, try adding crush coral to the filter.

-FHM

Well at least thats 1 thing lol at least the bacteria isnt actually dieing which is a good start.

Water changes vary m8, can be 3-4 times a week dependant on how i feed and condition but all the tanks get at least one 30-40% water change a week but it is usually more.

I have to agree with you with the swing cant be good to the fish, i said they are all healthy but i mentioned that earlier about the water changes and PH swing could start affecting the fish and also why this thread was intentially brought up

bicarb or crushed coral was the 2 options to me, bi carb not a problem but where do you get crushed coral from?

jen

 

[JenCliBee]

Does bicarb have any effects on fish?

 

[fatheadminnow]

Good question on the crushed coral, I really have no clue where to get it?

You could PM Tolak, rdd or waterdrop, I bet they would know where to get some.

-FHM

 

[JenCliBee]

Good question on the crushed coral, I really have no clue where to get it?

You could PM Tolak, rdd or waterdrop, I bet they would know where to get some.

-FHM

Will do cheers m8

 

[Darkstar]

Good question on the crushed coral, I really have no clue where to get it?

You can normally buy this as a substrate for marine tanks I think.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Does bicarb have any effects on fish?

No, it will not effect the fish that much.

I believe it raises the KH of your water, and with a higher KH, pH will not be effected as much.

If you want the essay version of this, wait until waterdrop swings through this thread, , he will tell you in detail the effects of bicarb.

-FHM

 

[Truck]

http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...5b1ad4ce98daf52

IMO there is no need. people on UKAPS keep tanks with a PH of around 5.8-6 with no adverse affects, ask dave spencer. he has 0 KH i think and his PH drops to 6 and he has NO problems whatsoever

 

[JenCliBee]

[URL="http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...5b1ad4ce98daf52"]http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...5b1ad4ce98daf52[/URL]

IMO there is no need. people on UKAPS keep tanks with a PH of around 5.8-6 with no adverse affects, ask dave spencer. he has 0 KH i think and his PH drops to 6 and he has NO problems whatsoever

But does he keep fish in his planted tank... if so whats the suvival rate?

 

[fatheadminnow]

<a href="http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...5b1ad4ce98daf52" target="_blank">http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/cat...5b1ad4ce98daf52</a>

IMO there is no need. people on UKAPS keep tanks with a PH of around 5.8-6 with no adverse affects, ask dave spencer. he has 0 KH i think and his PH drops to 6 and he has NO problems whatsoever

I guess its not only the fish, but the bacteria that adapt to a lower pH as well.

I would still aim for a higher pH of 6 though.

It just seems, IMO, easier on everything?

-FHM