Compatibility Check / Fish Advice Please

[eaglesaquarium]

What hard water fish did they have there?

 

[Miles_hot]

I will report back with specifics tomorrow Eagle - I was a little wide eyed yesterday
Certainly I remember Tiger, Green and Albino Barbs; Chain and Zerba Loaches (and some others); Rainbow Fish; things with long "feeler" things trailing backwards from their front portion and many more

 

[Wills]

Rainbow fish and Loaches sound good to me

Glad its as good as I thought

 

[Miles_hot]

A number of different Barbs (inc Tigers, Green, Albeno, Cherry), Loaches (Dwarf Chain, Zebra, Clown and many others), Gouramis, Rainbow fish, Flying foxes, sharks, a cracking fish with red spots on it's tail which gets to 7" so is too big for for us (need group of four), Rasbora and many more. Small but well stocked

miles

 

[Miles_hot]

I went to Coxwell Aqautics last night and took a note of all the fish they had which we'd liked. Then went home and produced some qucik cut outs showing a picture, the adult size, minimum numbers and resulting load against the 1"/Gallon guide.

We then cracked open another bottle of wine and had our own X Factor style shuffling of fish up and down the "like / need" scale and end up with the following stock list:

Tiger Barb - between 5 and 10 (pref 10)
Harleqin Rasbora - 6
Flying Fox - 2 (to eat algae)
Dwarf Chain Loach - 5 (Clean up squad)
Indian Gourami -2 (if we can fit it in)
Gold or Red Honey Gourami (if we can't fit the Indian in).

This woudl take us over the guideline and I would like your views on:
1) Is this a good combination
2) Can we fit them in
3) Are there any which we've not thought of which would make the tank better etc

The candidates which missed the cut (must look at a bigger tank one day!):
Iandia Glass fish (5)
Boeseman Rainbowfish (6) - Gutted!
Kuhli Loach (3+)
Zebra Loach (5+)
Pearl Gourami (2)
Leopard Danio (6)
Zebra Danio (6)

 

[KittyKat]

I see your stock, I dare you to try:
* 15-20 tiger barbs OR harlequin gouramis
* 6-8 dwarf chain loaches OR 10 khuli loaches
* 1m 1f Colisa fasciata OR 1m 3-5f honey gourami

Here is a review of the rest..
Tiger Barb - between 5 and 10 (pref 10): 5 will nip, 10 is a minimum and more is better
Harleqin Rasbora - 6: more is much better
Flying Fox - 2 (to eat algae): too large for the tank and you shouldn't have any algae anyway (algae = problem to fix)
Dwarf Chain Loach - 5 (Clean up squad): they won't do any "cleaning" in the sense of cleaning.. that's your job! they will finish leftovers, but they must have dedicated food too
Indian Gourami -2 (if we can fit it in): ok as a pair, do not mix different gourami species though, do not get two males
Gold or Red Honey Gourami (if we can't fit the Indian in): ok instead of Colisa fasciata
Iandia Glass fish (5): keep 10+, not compatible with tiger barbs, too large
Boeseman Rainbowfish (6) - Gutted!: way too big for the tank, alternative would be 3m 7f dwarf neon rainbows instead of the tiger barbs
Kuhli Loach (3+): ok, but keep in groups of at least 6+, but better 10+
Zebra Loach (5+): too large
Pearl Gourami (2): too large, although one may be ok instead of any other gourami
Leopard Danio (6): 15 can replace tiget barbs, do better in larger groups, too active for Colisa fasciata
Zebra Danio (6): 15 can replace tiget barbs, do better in larger groups, too active for Colisa fasciata

In short, for schooling fish, 6 is an absolute minimum and they really do do much better in larger groups, so try to keep them with more of their own kind.

 

[Miles_hot]

KK - thanks for the quick reply, I wonder if I've got some of the names wrong as you've said some stuff is too large but my notes suggest for instance that the rainbow will get to 4" and the Indian glass fish to 3". However that's as side show as I don't think that they'll make the cut even if my sizes are correct....
I am a little paranoid about the algae due to the location in a sunny hallway (the only location at this time) and hence the fox had booked a spot so will have to consider options before giving up a defense against algae. Any suggestions to reassure
Interesting point about the gourami, I didn't know that - thanks.
I think the tank could look interesting with 20 tigers however one of the things we'd like to do is have (at least) four different populations of fish in there (one each). I know this runs slightly against your preference for small number of different populations however its an aim well only back away from if we have to - we'll probably come around to your way of thinking when we've got more tanks bit for now.....
With that in mind looking at the load figures for our tank your initial suggestions make an overload of between 16% and 50% so assuming we can push it safely to 20-30% maybe we could look at:
Tiger x 15
Chains x 6
Golden gourami x 4
Ras x 6
This has the disadvantage of putting the schooling numbers at their bottom range and nothing to attack the algae which I'm paranoid about.
I am very open to ideas here! ooh - just had a thought (good job I'm sitting down) - can I put 8 tiger and 8 green tiger on to make a safe school of 16 but it looks like 2 fish types?
Miles

 

[KittyKat]

I wonder if I've got some of the names wrong as you've said some stuff is too large but my notes suggest for instance that the rainbow will get to 4" and the Indian glass fish to 3". However that's as side show as I don't think that they'll make the cut even if my sizes are correct....

Sizes are not the only considerations, the rainbows are a very active group of fish and for any large bodied ones, I feel that 4 ft tank is the minimum so they have the space they need.
Sorry, we were thinking about different fish, for some reason I thought you were on about glass catfish, which are slightly bigger!

I am a little paranoid about the algae due to the location in a sunny hallway (the only location at this time) and hence the fox had booked a spot so will have to consider options before giving up a defense against algae. Any suggestions to reassure

Nerite snails? ..but they don't go with loaches because loaches are snail eaters. I think loaches and algae-eating shrimp also don't go together.. sorry, no suggestions from me on stocking here. The only thing I can suggest is have a solid lid and low photoperiod, which coincides with the natural lighting...

Interesting point about the gourami, I didn't know that - thanks.
I think the tank could look interesting with 20 tigers however one of the things we'd like to do is have (at least) four different populations of fish in there (one each). I know this runs slightly against your preference for small number of different populations however its an aim well only back away from if we have to - we'll probably come around to your way of thinking when we've got more tanks bit for now.....

4 species in itself is not a problem, really.. it's just that there is nothing to fill the "cichlid" bit of the tank! So I think what you're after a surface feeder (gourami), mid-water schooler (barbs), bottom feeder (loaches) and centrepiece fish (normally, cichlids). Let me think on the cichlid replacement a bit.. I might be able to come up with a better solution You should expect to stock in the following order anyway: mid-water schooler, surface feeder, bottom feeder, *cichlid replacement*.

With that in mind looking at the load figures for our tank your initial suggestions make an overload of between 16% and 50% so assuming we can push it safely to 20-30% maybe

Sorry, I don't work with measurement per volume rules.. other species in the same numbers won't necessarily work!

Tiger x 15
Chains x 6
Golden gourami x 4
Ras x 6

The gold gouramis won't work: they're too aggressive to even consider more than 1 in a tank that size, in the long term. I think the other two gourami species were much better choices.

This has the disadvantage of putting the schooling numbers at their bottom range and nothing to attack the algae which I'm paranoid about.

Well, the other way to avoid algae is to really heavily plant the tank and do a low water change job, but you have to be certain you're willing to take the more difficult route. I did do it when I was a beginner, but it is not something I recommend to beginners.

I am very open to ideas here! ooh - just had a thought (good job I'm sitting down) - can I put 8 tiger and 8 green tiger on to make a safe school of 16 but it looks like 2 fish types?

Yes, that would work.

 

[Miles_hot]

Duh! I didn't mean golden gouramis - I meant Red/gold honey gourami!

Miles

 

[KittyKat]

Duh! I didn't mean golden gouramis - I meant Red/gold honey gourami!

I'll let you off you do need to make absolutely sure that you know how to sex them so that you can definitely get 1m and 3f because males will fight, and you probably don't want the stress of that with the new tank..

 

[Miles_hot]

Good point I've got quite a lot of trust in coxwell and I'll source all the fish through them. So hopefully I'll avoid the trouble

 

[KittyKat]

It's good that you have an LFS you can trust! Still, not every employee may always be that good at sexing all the species they have in the shop, and as a fishkeeper, it's your responsibility to know about the species you are taking on

 

[Miles_hot]

True, dealing with the manager bit you're right about my responsibility

 

[Miles_hot]

I see your stock, I dare you to try:
* 15-20 tiger barbs OR harlequin gouramis
* 6-8 dwarf chain loaches OR 10 khuli loaches
* 1m 1f Colisa fasciata OR 1m 3-5f honey gourami

Here is a review of the rest..
Tiger Barb - between 5 and 10 (pref 10): 5 will nip, 10 is a minimum and more is better
Harleqin Rasbora - 6: more is much better
Flying Fox - 2 (to eat algae): too large for the tank and you shouldn't have any algae anyway (algae = problem to fix)
Dwarf Chain Loach - 5 (Clean up squad): they won't do any "cleaning" in the sense of cleaning.. that's your job! they will finish leftovers, but they must have dedicated food too
Indian Gourami -2 (if we can fit it in): ok as a pair, do not mix different gourami species though, do not get two males
Gold or Red Honey Gourami (if we can't fit the Indian in): ok instead of Colisa fasciata
Iandia Glass fish (5): keep 10+, not compatible with tiger barbs, too large
Boeseman Rainbowfish (6) - Gutted!: way too big for the tank, alternative would be 3m 7f dwarf neon rainbows instead of the tiger barbs
Kuhli Loach (3+): ok, but keep in groups of at least 6+, but better 10+
Zebra Loach (5+): too large
Pearl Gourami (2): too large, although one may be ok instead of any other gourami
Leopard Danio (6): 15 can replace tiget barbs, do better in larger groups, too active for Colisa fasciata
Zebra Danio (6): 15 can replace tiget barbs, do better in larger groups, too active for Colisa fasciata

In short, for schooling fish, 6 is an absolute minimum and they really do do much better in larger groups, so try to keep them with more of their own kind.

Now that the tank is cycled (but ironically just before we go on holiday for a few days so we'll have to wait some more) I am going to pre-order the fish so need to firm up on numbers.

We're going to go with the large number of Tiger Barbs idea with an even split between Tiger and Gree TIger so that we have a good number (15-20) and we've also chosen the Dwarf Chain loaches. We need to decide between two medium or 3-4 small Gourami when we get to the shop. The only thing which is still troubling us is the algea question - this is because the tank is situated in a very light hall way and whilst it has a solid lid I can see issues coming. With this in mind would a single flyiong fox be happy? I know that they're not a schooling species and the shop and various places have said minimim number = 1 but I just wanted to check Note that we're not just buying for the Algae but also becasue they are an interesting looking fish

The other question which is vexing us which we'd like some advise on is the timining of the tank planting. We're going to be putting 4ppm Ammonia in for around 1-12 days before the fish turn up. Realistically we will be unable to tend the tank for 5 days of that time (someone will dose for us) and the tank is currently dark cycling (covered with a thick table cloth). Should we plant and leave for 5 days and let the plants establish (but will we have algae issues) or should we plant when we come back and then how long (if any time at all) do we have to leave the tank before putting the first bunch of fish in?

Thanks - so excited but don't want to stuff it up now

Miles

 

[KittyKat]

Which species of flying fox are you talking about here?

I think you are talking about Crossocheilus siamensis, which are schooling fish and do not do well in small groups (will normally spend most of the time in hiding, if kept on their own or in small groups).

Epalzeorhynchos kalopterus will pick on the loaches as they become more territorial and quite aggressive with age, but should be kept on their own.

My opinion is still that your aquarium is far too small and not the right environment for either of the two: they are quite active, can grow up to 15 cm / 6 inches, require lots of flat surfaces (rocks, broad-leafed plants) and a fast water flow (they come from fast-flowing streams). The first of the two is the best choice, if you really want one of these fish.. but do make sure you know how to ID them, compared to all the other, almost identical half dozen or so species. Shops do often mis-ID fish, ID them incorrectly, or just take whatever the wholesalers' lists claim they are, and most of the other species are little monsters, in comparison. Maybe Garra cambodgiensi might be a better alternative, as they can live on their own and are not aggressive.. but again, they should have same set-up as the other two.

For the stocking, I do recommend that you keep a close eye on ammonia and nitrite after adding the fish, and maybe feed only once every other day for the first week, just to be sure that there aren't any problems.