Bit Of Advice Needed...

[princessJJ23]

Hi all,just after a bit of advice regarding what to do next with our hospital/quarantine tank.On monday afternoon,my boyfriend and I purchased 2 golden gourami (which both turned out to be male,wasn't very happy about that),12 neon tetras and 4 male guppies.They were going in our 60 litre quarantine tank which had perfect water quality.Did the usual process for acclimatising the fish and had no problems until later that night when I noticed a dying tetra.We scooped him out into a tub to get a better look at him and his gills were barely moving.We decided the best thing was to euthanise him.We then noticed one of the guppies twitching at the bottom of the tank and then after about 5 minutes start swimming round again.He repeated this over the course of the rest of the night until we went to bed.The next morning he had died.I decided to go back to the place where we got the fish to discuss it with the owner,as one of the gourami had started to display what I thought was symptoms of swim bladder.The guy could not have been more accusatory of our tank and water quality,but after doing a water test had to admit defeat.He agreed to swap all the fish later on in the week for some from a fresh delivery.Just a few hours ago,we noticed the gourami really struggling to keep its buoyancy and then begin to whirl around like mad.I googled it and found about whirling disease which really upset me.So on to the question(finally!)we were wondering what was best to do with the tank and filter,I am under the assumption that the parasite would be present in it still after draining the water.What will be best to clean it with,and would you say its best to bin the filter completely or just get some new media?Thanks alot

 

[mattlee]

Hi and welcome to the forum

18 fish is a lot to add at once even in a fully cycled tank.... do you have a water test kit, if so which one? can you post the results of the tests please?

 

[WILDER]

Tropical fish are not meant to get whirling desease.
A fish swimming in circles fast can mean, bad water quality, ph shock, parasites, bacterial, brain damage, the fish is dying, toxins.

What are your water stats. What test kit are you using.

Whirling Disease (a.k.a. Myxospora)

Symptoms:

Whirling disease infects only salmonid fishes. Symptoms of severe whirling disease infections include whirling behavior, blackened tails, and head and skeletal deformities. Whirling disease gets its common name from the circular, uncontrolled swimming of some infected fish. Subclinical infections are common, and fish can be carriers of infective spores without any visible outward signs of disease. Confirmation by histology and/or polymerase chain reaction (PCR) is recommended for diagnosis of Myxobolus cerebralis infections.


Cause:

Whirling disease is caused by the microscopic spores of Myxobolus cerebralis, a multicellular parasite in the phylum Myxozoa. The disease usually progresses slowly, taking several months to kill the fish. Mortality is generally limited to severe infections of susceptible species during the early stages of their skeletal development.


Treatment:

Unfortunately, there is no curative treatment or vaccine. Elimination of Tubifex tubifex worms, the parasite's alternate host, and their habitat can interrupt the parasite's life cycle and prevent fish infections. Treatments of water and structures with chemicals, ultraviolet radiation and electric fields have been tested, but have not proved extremely successful. Prevention of M. cerebralis contamination is key, and can be accomplished through the use of certified disease-free fish sources and clean, secure water supply.

 

[princessJJ23]

I use an API test kit,the results yesterday were ammonia 0,nitrate 0 and nitrite 0,the filter was fully mature and running for 3 months in our main tank.I wouldnt have purchased this many fish if I knew that the filter wouldnt cope,I have been keeping fish for quite a long time.

 

[WILDER]

Are any fish darting around the tank, laboured breathing, flicking and rubbing, excess mucas.
What does it look like when your fish go to the toilet.
Check the anus to see if it's enlarged or red and inflamed.
Can all fish maintain balance in the water.
Fish can whirl with swim bladder.
Do any fish look bloated or thin.
What do you feed the fish.

 

[WILDER]

http/www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/swim_bladder.html

 

[princessJJ23]

Are any fish darting around the tank, laboured breathing, flicking and rubbing, excess mucas- No
What does it look like when your fish go to the toilet-As normal,dark coloured
Check the anus to see if it's enlarged or red and inflamed-No redness or inflammation
Can all fish maintain balance in the water-Other than one guppy who is floating at the top and a bit lobsided,the rest are fine
Do any fish look bloated or thin-The guppy who is floating at the top is bloated
What do you feed the fish-Pet smarts own brand which we have been feeding our other fish for months with no ill effects

 

[onebto]

I had the same thought that's a lot of fish in one go, Also Nitrate 0 ?

I hope the other fish are okay


Regards onebto

 

[princessJJ23]

Thanks onebto,its really upset me to be honest,even though the fish are going back tomorrow I hate the thought that any of them could get as ill as the gourami is now.I have had to put a blanket over the tank as I couldnt bear to see him like that and hopefully it will calm him down

 

[onebto]

Thanks onebto,its really upset me to be honest,even though the fish are going back tomorrow I hate the thought that any of them could get as ill as the gourami is now.I have had to put a blanket over the tank as I couldnt bear to see him like that and hopefully it will calm him down

I know how you feel I had 3 Honey Gourami and lost all 3 one by one not a pleasant experience

 

[princessJJ23]

Has anyone got any ideas on how best to clean the tank and filter,the fish are going back to the shop today so we will be stripping the tank down when we get back.The gourami is still at it today and now the other one is swimming funny I really hope they put them out of their misery and not try to sell any of them as they are probably all infected

 

[roadmaster]

I use an API test kit,the results yesterday were ammonia 0,nitrate 0 and nitrite 0,the filter was fully mature and running for 3 months in our main tank.I wouldnt have purchased this many fish if I knew that the filter wouldnt cope,I have been keeping fish for quite a long time.

I would want to know what the ph levels in the stores tanks was in relation to what the pH in the quarantine tank was and if it were much different,, I might consider drip acclimation for new fish.
Neons and Gouramis do not share same water chemistry with guppies. Neons and gouramis would be much more comfortable in soft acidic water while guppies need basic to hard ,alkaline water.Neons also prefer cooler temps than guppies who seem to do better at temps between 78 to 82 degrees F.
If the borrowed filter or filter material that was placed in/on the quarantine tank was not fed daily, or fish added within 24 hours,,it is possible that the live bacteria began to die off. With healthy biological filter running I would hope to see some measureable NitrAtes unless your quarantine tank is heavily planted?
Is also possible that fish were sick from the outset and I might consider different source for new fish were it me just for some peace of mind.

 

[princessJJ23]

The reason the results were 0 for all readings is because the filter for the quarantine tank is constantly running in our main tank,which is heavily planted.We have decided they were sick from the outset,the shop has said it was nothing they have done and offered us a replacement.Under the circumstances of us not being able to diagnose what was wrong with the fish,we dont want to put more fish in the quarantine tank and risk that they too are sick or that there might be parasites/bacteria remaining.They are being very awkward about giving us a refund so I am going back there in a minute with my boyfriend,who will be quoting sections from the sales of goods act!!We will not be going there again as it seems like not only have they sold us sick fish,but they give bad advice and not warned us that the fish we chose require different water parameters.I guess thats partly down to us not researching fully but I suppose its the least you can expect from a business that has supposedly been going for 30 or 40 years.....

 

[saz326]

Im afraid I have to give the fish store the benefit of the doubt with this one.. You had a quaranteen tank for the fish to go into, and you probably informed the person selling you the fish that you indeed had everything set up - he/she probably quite rightly then would have thought you know what you are doing so they didnt need to offer you further advice. (I certainly know I hate being given half ar*ed advice from somone when I know Im already aware)

Its a shame when things simply dont work out. Be sure to give the quaranteen tank a once-over and let it dry out completely to kill off any waterborne nasties. Also remember not to put the filter back onto your main tank until it's had a thorough clean/boil. If there were any bugs or nasties in the water then they would also be in the filter - . You dont want them making their way into your main tank.

Good luck getting the cash back.