Basic Gourami Help!

[Shelby Drake]

Hey there! I’m new to the site and I have recently gotten back into the fish trade. I started really young, but now a I am trying out some new fish I’ve never had before. I recently got a 45Gal tank, and have been looking for a beautiful centerpiece fish to finish the look off. I figured what better fish, thank a Gourami or some kind. I have yet to really decide on what type of Gourami, so some help there would be appreciated. My only concern, is I have read mixed posts on whether or not they are fin nippers.

In my tank, I have
4x of various platys
6x fancy guppies
4x various long finned Danios
2x Peacock Gobys
2x various Cory’s
2x Dwarf Suckers
2x Butterfly Loach
(I know the past three bottom feeders really need more friends, they will get them soon)
Some Shrimp
A couple snails
And MANY live rocks and live plants to create a heavily planted environment.

I also plan on getting some type of small schooling fish (I’m thinking either Rummy Nose Tetra or Galaxy Rasboras) and I am open to suggestions there too! But would a Gourami affect any of the fish I currently have? And is there a more docile centerpiece fish I should look into?

I apologize for the long post, but any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Hey there! I’m new to the site and I have recently gotten back into the fish trade. I started really young, but now a I am trying out some new fish I’ve never had before. I recently got a 45Gal tank, and have been looking for a beautiful centerpiece fish to finish the look off. I figured what better fish, thank a Gourami or some kind. I have yet to really decide on what type of Gourami, so some help there would be appreciated. My only concern, is I have read mixed posts on whether or not they are fin nippers.

In my tank, I have
4x of various platys
6x fancy guppies
4x various long finned Danios
2x Peacock Gobys
2x various Cory’s
2x Dwarf Suckers
2x Butterfly Loach
(I know the past three bottom feeders really need more friends, they will get them soon)
Some Shrimp
A couple snails
And MANY live rocks and live plants to create a heavily planted environment.

I also plan on getting some type of small schooling fish (I’m thinking either Rummy Nose Tetra or Galaxy Rasboras) and I am open to suggestions there too! But would a Gourami affect any of the fish I currently have? And is there a more docile centerpiece fish I should look into?

I apologize for the long post, but any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

It all depends on the specific type of Gourami, what type are you looking into getting?

 

[Byron]

I will go one step further...the fish you now have are not compatible with gourami because of their respective requirements. Gourami are quiet sedate fish, requiring relatively still water and normal warmth (around 78F/25C).

Fish like the Butterfly Loaches (which I assume are Hillstream Loaches in the genus Sewellia) need strong currents and cooler water (20-24C/68-75F max).

The danios are also active swimmers, not good with gourami. A few more of these would help them though, being a shoaling species a group of 7-8 since you have the space.

Cories are also shoaling and highly social, so at least 8-9 (one species or mixed) in this tank would be better for them. Two will become stressed.

The cooler temperatures for the loaches will be OK with the cories and danios too.

Neither rummynose tetras nor Galaxy Rasboras will fit in here.

Welcome to TFF.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness) and pH of your water supply?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

 

[Shelby Drake]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

It all depends on the specific type of Gourami, what type are you looking into getting?

Specifically I was looking to get either Dwarf of Samurai Gourami due to their coloration, but I have heard both can be a bit aggressive/nippy with fish that have longer fins. I also forgot to mention these fish came with the tank (now I realize it is actually a 50Gal, and is a tall Hexagonal tank) and previously were with all the fish mentioned and that I own, the owner just no longer wanted the fish I have now and thus were passed down with the tank he no longer wanted.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

I don't think the Gourami's requirements are that far off the other fish - my tanks have put them through HELL the last couple of months with the kind of water readings I have had and they have all survived. So I know they are quite adaptable to water changes. I keep all my tanks at 75-78 degrees. I keep the PH at 7.0 because that's in the range most fish.. Gourami's like a slow peaceful tank but I really think they enjoy watching some of the fast swimmers

I've included them with some of these species - the only issue I had was that STRANGLY a psycho Danio ate the fins off of one of my gourami's and then killed his schoolmates (two together actually did this) - I put them in a smaller tank with some Rasbora's and then I accidentally killed one of the Danio's - so there is 1 left with 5 Rasboras - he tries to school with them but there isn't enough room. Not great for the Danio but it was either this or euthanasia - I couldn't have this supposedly peaceful species kill my fish. On the other hand, I always thought the Gourami's enjoyed the antics of the Danios and other faster swimming fish. I find them incredibly adaptable and very hardy. They warn you against Dwarf Gourami because some carry a disease - I have nearly all the dwarf varieties and none are ill. I bought mine online from a dealer that sells to stores and to big companies. The Powder Blue gourami was the first that I purchased - really stunning as is the dwarf version (even more striking). The Pearl Gourami is another species that is flat out beautiful. One of the large Gold Gourami's develops tiger stripes as it grows - stunning. Then I had the strangest thing happen to my Red and Blue striped Gourami's - they both started turning black - now one is completely black, the other is black on one side and striped on the other side (but turning black). I feed them a "color enhancing food" so I'm thinking maybe this did it - but it looks pretty comical.

I can't think of another species of fresh water fish that has so many color and pattern varieties - my water has been horrible for two months with ammonia up to levels of 8 ppm. I have to lower the PH before adding fish because the city I live in keeps our PH at 10-11 on purpose. They also test at 1.5 nitrates - so you're behind the eight-ball every time you do a water change. I don't recall the exact numbers but there was a minimal reaction to General hardness (the book said "suitable for most tropical fish"). I think I added 2 drops of the solution before getting a color reaction. I don't bother to test any longer because there isn't much I can do about it. All my tanks lost their cycling (I think I added too many fish at the same time) - and after 2 months I'm just now seeing cycling go on and my ammonia levels in 2 out of 3 tanks (both are 29 gallons) are at readings of 1 or 2 at the most. Same with nitrates. On the third tank (only 5 gallons) the ammonia readings go from zero, to 4 to 8 etc. Lots of water changes and AmGuard.

I also think with Gourami's you can have more fish in the tank (other than the bioload issue) because they just don't need a lot of space, they just drift looking beautiful - with an occasional dominance squabble but never any real damage). They CAN swim very fast when necessary. They prefer to live in partners so I always try to get 2 of each.

 

[Shelby Drake]

I don't think the Gourami's requirements are that far off the other fish - my tanks have put them through HELL the last couple of months with the kind of water readings I have had and they have all survived. So I know they are quite adaptable to water changes. I keep all my tanks at 75-78 degrees. I keep the PH at 7.0 because that's in the range most fish.. Gourami's like a slow peaceful tank but I really think they enjoy watching some of the fast swimmers

I've included them with some of these species - the only issue I had was that STRANGLY a psycho Danio ate the fins off of one of my gourami's and then killed his schoolmates (two together actually did this) - I put them in a smaller tank with some Rasbora's and then I accidentally killed one of the Danio's - so there is 1 left with 5 Rasboras - he tries to school with them but there isn't enough room. Not great for the Danio but it was either this or euthanasia - I couldn't have this supposedly peaceful species kill my fish. On the other hand, I always thought the Gourami's enjoyed the antics of the Danios and other faster swimming fish. I find them incredibly adaptable and very hardy. They warn you against Dwarf Gourami because some carry a disease - I have nearly all the dwarf varieties and none are ill. I bought mine online from a dealer that sells to stores and to big companies. The Powder Blue gourami was the first that I purchased - really stunning as is the dwarf version (even more striking). The Pearl Gourami is another species that is flat out beautiful. One of the large Gold Gourami's develops tiger stripes as it grows - stunning. Then I had the strangest thing happen to my Red and Blue striped Gourami's - they both started turning black - now one is completely black, the other is black on one side and striped on the other side (but turning black). I feed them a "color enhancing food" so I'm thinking maybe this did it - but it looks pretty comical.

I can't think of another species of fresh water fish that has so many color and pattern varieties - my water has been horrible for two months with ammonia up to levels of 8 ppm. I have to lower the PH before adding fish because the city I live in keeps our PH at 10-11 on purpose. They also test at 1.5 nitrates - so you're behind the eight-ball every time you do a water change. I don't recall the exact numbers but there was a minimal reaction to General hardness (the book said "suitable for most tropical fish"). I think I added 2 drops of the solution before getting a color reaction. I don't bother to test any longer because there isn't much I can do about it. All my tanks lost their cycling (I think I added too many fish at the same time) - and after 2 months I'm just now seeing cycling go on and my ammonia levels in 2 out of 3 tanks (both are 29 gallons) are at readings of 1 or 2 at the most. Same with nitrates. On the third tank (only 5 gallons) the ammonia readings go from zero, to 4 to 8 etc. Lots of water changes and AmGuard.

I also think with Gourami's you can have more fish in the tank (other than the bioload issue) because they just don't need a lot of space, they just drift looking beautiful - with an occasional dominance squabble but never any real damage). They CAN swim very fast when necessary. They prefer to live in partners so I always try to get 2 of each.

Thank you so much for the advise! I will look into the ones you mentioned, as I really have only personally seen the Pearl Gourami. I just recently had my water tested and it came back to be pretty similar to the levels you were indicating, and they are especially good since I just did a full water change. I appreciate hearing from you verses some Petco Associate, and I thank you for taking the time to be so thorough!

 

[Byron]

Thank you so much for the advise! I will look into the ones you mentioned, as I really have only personally seen the Pearl Gourami. I just recently had my water tested and it came back to be pretty similar to the levels you were indicating, and they are especially good since I just did a full water change. I appreciate hearing from you verses some Petco Associate, and I thank you for taking the time to be so thorough!

You cannot add any of the gourami to the existing stocking, and I assume you do care about the fish. It won't work. It is the mix of species with completely different requirements and behaviours, more than water conditions.

I forgot to welcome you to TFF earlier.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

You cannot add any of the gourami to the existing stocking, and I assume you do care about the fish. It won't work. It is the mix of species with completely different requirements and behaviours, more than water conditions.

Byron - I'm completely confused about your comment. What do you mean you can't add any gourami to the existing stock. Do you mean the existing stock of other species or the existing stock of Gourami's? I have bristlenose pleco's with my Gourami's, I have a few small tetra's, I have Dojo Loaches, and my pride and joy Blue Phantom Pleco as well as Cory's (these are all mixed in two different tanks). What I love about Gourami's is that, while they play dominance games with each other (never any damage done) I have NEVER seen one mess with a different species of fish - they just harass each other LOL. The other fish also never mess with the Gourami's perhaps because the Gourami's are the biggest fish in the tank. I did recently euthanize (I'll get some hate responses with this) 5 Chinese Algae Eaters - the website completely misinformed me regarding how terribly aggressive these fish are at adulthood (totally peaceful when young) and they were nipping the fins off of every fish they could catch as well as chomping down on each other - it was a horror to watch and upset the entire tank where everybody started hiding all the time. I decided the best thing to do was to get rid of them through humane euthanasia (if there is such a thing). Since then all my fish have come out of hiding and are able to eat without being attacked. When I looked up these fish on Wikapedia it say "avoid at all costs" - so I'm totally pissed at the vendor for not warning how seriously aggressive these fish become. Other than a psycho danio killing his school mates and a dwarf Gourami (who would have thought such a thing could happen with a danio?) I've never had any other problems. The one left is now happily living with some Raspboras in another tank. He leaves them alone and actually tries to school with them. I think Gourami's get along with all peaceful fish. Just no "semi-aggressive" or "aggressive" fish - Gourami's are too passive to fight back.

 

[Byron]

Byron - I'm completely confused about your comment. What do you mean you can't add any gourami to the existing stock. Do you mean the existing stock of other species or the existing stock of Gourami's? I have bristlenose pleco's with my Gourami's, I have a few small tetra's, I have Dojo Loaches, and my pride and joy Blue Phantom Pleco as well as Cory's (these are all mixed in two different tanks). What I love about Gourami's is that, while they play dominance games with each other (never any damage done) I have NEVER seen one mess with a different species of fish - they just harass each other LOL. The other fish also never mess with the Gourami's perhaps because the Gourami's are the biggest fish in the tank. I did recently euthanize (I'll get some hate responses with this) 5 Chinese Algae Eaters - the website completely misinformed me regarding how terribly aggressive these fish are at adulthood (totally peaceful when young) and they were nipping the fins off of every fish they could catch as well as chomping down on each other - it was a horror to watch and upset the entire tank where everybody started hiding all the time. I decided the best thing to do was to get rid of them through humane euthanasia (if there is such a thing). Since then all my fish have come out of hiding and are able to eat without being attacked. When I looked up these fish on Wikapedia it say "avoid at all costs" - so I'm totally pissed at the vendor for not warning how seriously aggressive these fish become. Other than a psycho danio killing his school mates and a dwarf Gourami (who would have thought such a thing could happen with a danio?) I've never had any other problems. The one left is now happily living with some Raspboras in another tank. He leaves them alone and actually tries to school with them. I think Gourami's get along with all peaceful fish. Just no "semi-aggressive" or "aggressive" fish - Gourami's are too passive to fight back.

Back in post #3 I summarized some of the issues why gourami should not be kept with some of the other fish listed in post #1. There are issues involving temperature, water current, and active swimming fish. This was the OP's (Shelby Drake) tank I was referencing. But the reasons apply to all gourami species.

You were wise to euthanize the Chinese Algae Eaters, they are nothing but trouble. Not easy fish to give away.

A comment on the "dominance games." This may not be as innocent as you imagine. Fish have inherent behaviours, and gourami are very similar to cichlids. Males are territorial; it depends upon species as some are far more aggressive defending territory than other species, and sometimes individual males can be more or less aggressive within a species. But the general inherent nature of fish is what the aquarist must assume and provide accordingly. Even if no physical contact (nipping, fighting) is observed, the fish may still be making their respective positions very clear to each other, and this can stress out the losers. Pheromones are chemical signals released by fish and read by others in their species (allomones are similar but read by other species) and fish communicate using these even more than sight. So you cannot possibly say no damage is being done; but you can assume that if the fish are normal (in good health for the species) and depending upon the species, these "games" are very serious stuff and are causing reactions of some sort.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

Oh sorry - I think I get it now Byron. Shelby - with your existing stock you can't have Gourami's - I agree with Byron they just won't work. I'm actually surprise what you have is working. Also and FYI - when you get Danios you need 5-10 of the same species. When you get Cory's/Catfish you need 3 (my preference) but 5 according to others. These must be the same species. You can't just buy whatever looks interesting or pretty - with MOST fish it doesn't work that way. I'm sorry you didn't get the Gourami's first. A guppy tank is a far different tank than a non-live bearing tank. Since you're into Guppies get a couple of spectactular looking ones (either both male - or have plans on how to deal with hundreds of babies or you'll be letting everything in the tank - including guppies feast on them. Sorry - NOT a guppy fan. I'll need to get my daughter on here LOL.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

Thanks Byron for clearing this up for me. I totally get what you were saying now. So many new fish owners do what Shelby has done (and what I did many years ago) - just buy whatever fish they like without looking much at the requirements.

As far as my Gourami's - Yeah, I wonder sometimes about the dominance games but the only time they behave that way is when they are all eating and only one HUGE Blue Gourami about 8" does it to two 4" fish (also blue gourami but a different type) But he's pretty much given up - they don't seem to care nor do they avoid him. . So sometimes the big fish just gives whoever is nearby a little bump. He never touches any species but Gourami. Nobody in the tank stays in hiding - they come out knowing he's right there and may nudge them so it doesn't sound like they are particularly stressed. Interestingly, my Dojo Loaches seem the most troubled by having any fish near them even though as far as I know none of the fish have bothered them. Might be cool to just have a tankful of Dojo Loaches since they seem to fear all things but each other.

I just purchased a new tank and may be re-arranging some fish, especially in that tank - it doesn't have that many fish but most of them are 4" or larger so it appears over-crowded to me. Many are still growing. I'll remove some of the big ones then add a small number 2" species of something interesting that works with the Gourami's (I have plenty of time to think about it - I'm just adding water to the new tank today and it will be ammonia cycled - which took my other tanks about 5 or 6 weeks. ). Think I'm goofy but I just love those neon tetra's and the story behind them. Somehow knowing that it was originally done for "scientific reasons" makes it OK for a grown woman to have purple and pink fish. Green seems to be the favorite color - it's sold out everywhere in-town and online. I will avoid the Danio's since I've had such a bad experience with them.

Thanks again Byron - do you have any suggestions for Shelby other than more guppies? It's too bad she inherited such a mess of fish types.

Also thanks for not b**ching me out about euthanizing unwanted fish. The Wikapedia listing is what did it for me in the end by confirming my worst fears of what was going to eventually happen in my tank if I didn't do something. They were not even safe with each other. They shouldn't even sell these things for an aquarium and even at 1.39 each they are too expensive to buy for eating.

 

[Byron]

Thanks again Byron - do you have any suggestions for Shelby other than more guppies? It's too bad she inherited such a mess of fish types.

Shelby cannot add any more fish until the existing issues are resolved. I set these out in post #3. The present fish are not compatible, in terms of temperature, water currents, etc. This has to be resolved if one cares about the fish, which I hope we do.

 

[Shelby Drake]

Thanks Byron for clearing this up for me. I totally get what you were saying now. So many new fish owners do what Shelby has done (and what I did many years ago) - just buy whatever fish they like without looking much at the requirements.

As far as my Gourami's - Yeah, I wonder sometimes about the dominance games but the only time they behave that way is when they are all eating and only one HUGE Blue Gourami about 8" does it to two 4" fish (also blue gourami but a different type) But he's pretty much given up - they don't seem to care nor do they avoid him. . So sometimes the big fish just gives whoever is nearby a little bump. He never touches any species but Gourami. Nobody in the tank stays in hiding - they come out knowing he's right there and may nudge them so it doesn't sound like they are particularly stressed. Interestingly, my Dojo Loaches seem the most troubled by having any fish near them even though as far as I know none of the fish have bothered them. Might be cool to just have a tankful of Dojo Loaches since they seem to fear all things but each other.

I just purchased a new tank and may be re-arranging some fish, especially in that tank - it doesn't have that many fish but most of them are 4" or larger so it appears over-crowded to me. Many are still growing. I'll remove some of the big ones then add a small number 2" species of something interesting that works with the Gourami's (I have plenty of time to think about it - I'm just adding water to the new tank today and it will be ammonia cycled - which took my other tanks about 5 or 6 weeks. ). Think I'm goofy but I just love those neon tetra's and the story behind them. Somehow knowing that it was originally done for "scientific reasons" makes it OK for a grown woman to have purple and pink fish. Green seems to be the favorite color - it's sold out everywhere in-town and online. I will avoid the Danio's since I've had such a bad experience with them.

Thanks again Byron - do you have any suggestions for Shelby other than more guppies? It's too bad she inherited such a mess of fish types.

Also thanks for not b**ching me out about euthanizing unwanted fish. The Wikapedia listing is what did it for me in the end by confirming my worst fears of what was going to eventually happen in my tank if I didn't do something. They were not even safe with each other. They shouldn't even sell these things for an aquarium and even at 1.39 each they are too expensive to buy for eating.

Just got two whole other tanks to deal with the mess of fish, moved my guppies, platys and danios into a whole other 29 Gallon, got some more Julii Cory catfish (5) in the original tank, and put the rest of the fish listed into a separate 29 Gallon I have (so far) only two neon gourami, two samurai gourami, and two licorice gourami that are doing amazing. Thank you for all your help!