Bacteria In A Bottle, Does Is Work?

[Primous]

My sincere apologies Dieses Madchen. It appears I miss quoted you. Though your Certified MIT lab tech status and knowledge in this area is more than enough for me.

 

[snazy]

Really lol? Water changes keeping ammonia at zero is umm a real common thing. Oh and I think his aquarium was a little larger than the one your comparing it to to think that that's not possible.

Really? How large was his fish tank? I have had ammonia problems in the past with a normal fish in cycle where I've got ammonia spike up to 4-8ppm and even if I do two 90% back to back water changes, I got ammonia rising in not less than 2 hours from reading it at 0. And this is when there actually is bacteria in the tank colonizing, and filter is working. You claim that even this person noticed his bacteria died in 3 days. So I just can't begin to imagine what ammount of ammonia was being build up in the space of 3 weeks with nothing working in his tank. Fair play if he was able to do it. But fish is crippling my social life as it is, not to mind if there was a hurricane around me.

I don't see a proof here that his bacteria died after 3 days. It just seized to function, as ammonia/oxygen was not coming to it via the filter flow. It will be also insteresting to know how was he able to keep the water "relatively warm" as temperature drop to a certain extent will kill the bacteria.

To elaborate on my statement again, Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira fresh water bacteria die at 0 degrees freezing temperature, boiling temperature and anything near that will make it seize to function if not kill it completely.

Where do you get this stuff? I have yet to mention temperature as a factor but since you have let's take a brief moment to expand on the point that "low temp kills bacs." Because I'd like to ask you how you think these bottles reach your lfs or ebay stockholder? Shipping via land where possible of course, but overseas? Thats by sea and via air right? Where very dramatic drops in temp guaranteed to occur and...

Well that's the point, since this type of bacteria does not make spores, under lack of favourable conditions it does go into a dormant stage, but if exposed to extreme temperatures, it will die. Therefore when it is transported from manufacturer to retailer, not all of the stock you buy may have survived. But it does not mean this is always the case, or that the manufacturer is putting distilled water in the Tetra Safe Start bottle.
Ebay? I would not buy this from ebay...You should know that there is no protection cover on the bottle since you claim you've tried it, and an ebay seller may have put anything in this.

The problem I have in continuing to debate you is that you contradict yourself repeatedly. And before you ask "where" just re-read your own posts. I mean, we are fortunate enough to have a member (Dieses Madchen) who is a certified MIT lab tech with a phd and experience in this area and when they present to you scientific fact as is, your rebuttal is Dr T's talking points??? When this member stated you can freeze dry bacterias, that was information that was new to me and a simple google search proved her statement completely true and valid.

I think you should rather re-read my posts, where did I contradict myself?

And Nope. You can't freeze dry Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacteria responsible for fresh water aquarium cycle.
Try another google search.

Although it is possible as Dieses Madchen mentioned to freeze dry certain types of bacteria, which I am aware of as well, you can't do that with Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira and I don't need a book to tell you I am 100% certain on this(although I've read a lot)

The bacteria that some other manufacturers freeze dry and sell it to you as viable bacteria is the heterotrophic nitrifying type of bacteria that is also present in aquaria, but is type of bacteria feeding on organic matter that can live in aerobic and anaerobic condition. The rates at which it converts ammonia and nitrites to nitrates are nearly one million times less efficient than the Autotrophic good Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira you want to grow in your fish tank. Additionally, adding such bacteria in big ammounts to a cycling tank, will cripple the colonizing of the "good" bacteria, because it multiplies so fast, that it takes over all surfaces that ideally you want Nitrospira and Nitrosomonas to cover. What happens happens then is, huge ammonia and nitrite spikes and way longer cycles because the good bacteria is suffocating.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

But fish is crippling my social life as it is, not to mind if there was a hurricane around me.

If this is the case, then you must be doing something wrong, especially if the fishtank(s) you have are keeping you from having a good social life. I am married,have 2 kids, work full time, have 2 cats, and I get out of the house for luxury a lot, yet manage to maintain 7 fully functional tanks ranging from 3g to 75g, all recieving weekly water changes and adequate monitoring via liquid test kit. May I ask what is so "crippling" about keeping fish that is preventing you from your social functions?

 

[snazy]

If this is the case, then you must be doing something wrong, especially if the fishtank(s) you have are keeping you from having a good social life. I am married,have 2 kids, work full time, have 2 cats, and I get out of the house for luxury a lot, yet manage to maintain 7 fully functional tanks ranging from 3g to 75g, all recieving weekly water changes and adequate monitoring via liquid test kit. May I ask what is so "crippling" about keeping fish that is preventing you from your social functions?

Well, if spending the time with my fish, reading a lot about whatever you can imagine about fish, visiting this forum recently , if all this means I am "doing something wrong", then I must be
You are right that I can survive with a bit less fishy stuff.


Edit: To be honest, it is a fair effort with 2 kids, 2 cats and 7 tanks.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

If this is the case, then you must be doing something wrong, especially if the fishtank(s) you have are keeping you from having a good social life. I am married,have 2 kids, work full time, have 2 cats, and I get out of the house for luxury a lot, yet manage to maintain 7 fully functional tanks ranging from 3g to 75g, all recieving weekly water changes and adequate monitoring via liquid test kit. May I ask what is so "crippling" about keeping fish that is preventing you from your social functions?

Well, if spending the time with my fish, reading a lot about whatever you can imagine about fish, visiting this forum recently , if all this means I am "doing something wrong", then I must be
You are right that I can survive with a bit less fishy stuff.


Edit: To be honest, it is a fair effort with 2 kids, 2 cats and 7 tanks.

I just had to ask, as I spend time with my fish as well. I love watching my bettas flirt with me, not to mention laughing as my cichlids take food out of my hands. But I would never considering the amount of time and effort I invest into my tanks as "crippling." I think of it more as therapeutic.

 

[pern]

That's the word Snazy! When I looked at a Seachem stability site it called the starter bacteria heterotrophic.

 

[snazy]

But I would never considering the amount of time and effort I invest into my tanks as "crippling." I think of it more as therapeutic.

Not me, it's my partner that considers time spent with fish "crippling" mine and as a consequence, his social life

 

[Dieses Madchen]

But I would never considering the amount of time and effort I invest into my tanks as "crippling." I think of it more as therapeutic.

Not me, it's my partner that considers time spent with fish "crippling" mine and as a consequence, his social life

That's too bad...my husband likes to find ways to improve my tanks

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That's the word Snazy! When I looked at a Seachem stability site it called the starter bacteria heterotrophic.

Pern,

Heterotrophic merely means that it is not autotrophic. Autotrophic bacteria use photosynthesis (or similar) to "produce their own food", whereas heterotrophic means that they must consumer something else as food.


The bacteria we want to cultrivate in our tanks are heterotrophic as they need ammonia or nitrite to consume in order to survive.

 

[snazy]

The bacteria we want to cultrivate in our tanks are heterotrophic as they need ammonia or nitrite to consume in order to survive.

Thats is not true. Heterotrophic means it uses organic matter like fish waste, dead plant, etc.
Autotrophic means it uses non-organic matter like oxygen, ammonia, nitrite.

Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira are autotrophic bacteria.

The heterotrophic type of bacteria that can also convert ammonia to nitrite, is heterotrophic facultative bacteria. Which means:
First, it can live with or without oxygen, but performs differently under each condition.
Second, in anaerobic conditions it converts organic matter to ammonia and is mostly present deep in the gravel.
Third-when conditions for fast multiplying are present(dirty aquarium, external source in a bottle, etc) it starts colonizing in the water and other surfaces. It multiplies in the space of 20-30 minutes twice, compared to Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira that take 24hrs at least. Once it takes over, some may notice whitish water and white film on glass and ornaments. Since it has come out of it's non-oxygen enviroment, it starts using the oxygen to convert ammonia to nitrite instead. However, it does it one million times slower than the "good" bacteria. Therefore, although it may seem cycle is going for a while, the conversion rate of this bacteria is so slow that ammonia will eventually build up. But since by using all the available surfaces and oxygen it has suffocated the "good" bacteria, the fish tank will go into another cycle or mini-cycle.

 

[Fishy friend2]

I only understand half of the stuff you guys and girls are sayin

 

[snazy]

That's too bad...my husband likes to find ways to improve my tanks

Ha, ha. Does not work the same way with me. I am told how to improve my tanks, but I get no help after. I guess I should appreciate the idea at least

 

[Fishy friend2]

Lol

 

[Blubble37]

Does bacteria in a bottle work?

no.

 

[Fishy friend2]

Does bacteria in a bottle work?

no.

Thank you