Apistogramma Macmasteri Sexing

[neo83]

Hi

This is my Apistogramma Macmasteri female, bought as A. Viejita. Could you please help me in confirming whether it's a female or not as it was bought as female and she seems to be showing off to the male and vice versa.

This is my male, in case you need the pic

EDIT: Video added with both Macmasteri showing off to each other. All votes are for 'Definitely Male' and C101 has given countless reasons But I dont understand them showing off to each in a 'mating way' rather than an aggressive way.

NOTE: Advice not to maximise the video as its shot in standard definition with iPhone

Thanks

 

[Curiosity101]

Easiest way I've found of sexing youngsters is that females don't get the blue outline on the anal fin AT ALL and it shows up in the males quite early. So I'd definitely say 100% that you have 2 males.

Edit: Just to add there are alot of other hints that it's male. Very pointy anal and dorsal fins, the red colouratio around the head area and the general lack of yellow base to the body colour and lack of thick black lines on the ventral fins. On the females the vental lines meet up in the middle and then form a line down the stomach of the fish.

 

[neo83]

Easiest way I've found of sexing youngsters is that females don't get the blue outline on the anal fin AT ALL and it shows up in the males quite early. So I'd definitely say 100% that you have 2 males.

the general lack of yellow base to the body colour

Thought the yellowness is only pronounced/appears only when she wants to breed or ready to breed. I sometimes see some yellowness when she is showing off to the male, but may be my eyes

lack of thick black lines on the ventral fins. On the females the vental lines meet up in the middle and then form a line down the stomach of the fish.

Could you please post a pic of the female if you have so that i understand what you mean.

Also is it possible for two males to show off to each other?

Thanks

 

[Curiosity101]

Yes two males will display to eachother in order to set up territories.
One of my males

One of my females - She is around 3cm long so no where near actual breeding age, but you can clearly see the yellow base colour.

Sorry for the poor quality photos. I only realised after I'd taken them that the curtains were wide open and the tank next to the one I was taking pictures of had it's lid open. So the camera was struggling to focus.
I can take more if you need them...?

 

[neo83]

Thank you very much. Would always appreciate more pics of the female if you dont mind

 

[Curiosity101]

I'll take some more a bit later when it goes dark outside

But hopefully you can sorta see how your two are definitely males. As opposed to male and female.

 

[neo83]

lack of thick black lines on the ventral fins. On the females the vental lines meet up in the middle and then form a line down the stomach of the fish.

Thanks to your pics, i understand the 'thick black lines on the ventral fins', but dont understand the other part. Please could you clarify through the pics

I'll take some more a bit later when it goes dark outside

Much appreciated!

But hopefully you can sorta see how your two are definitely males. As opposed to male and female.

Don't want to accept it as i have been watching them for the past 2 months thinking that they are showing off to each other and may be i'll get lucky but now i might have to. This means i would have to take him back to the store and hopefully find a female, and i dont even know how to tie the fish bag with oxygen. Guess i would have to practice that now

 

[Curiosity101]

Here is a picture of another species of apisto which has similar ventral markings (or at least has what I'm trying to describe).

Do you see how the black on the ventrals travels all the way to the top where the two lines meet. And then the line continues down the fishes stomach, underneath the fish.

And by the shape of the anal and dorsal fins you can be sure they're both males anyways. If you look at the (blurry) pics of mine, it's not totally clear. But you can make out how the females fins are rounded rather than elongated and pointy.

 

[neo83]

Here is a picture of another species of apisto which has similar ventral markings (or at least has what I'm trying to describe).

Do you see how the black on the ventrals travels all the way to the top where the two lines meet. And then the line continues down the fishes stomach, underneath the fish.

And by the shape of the anal and dorsal fins you can be sure they're both males anyways. If you look at the (blurry) pics of mine, it's not totally clear. But you can make out how the females fins are rounded rather than elongated and pointy.

Yes, now i get what you mean, the pic definitely helped. oh well! now with the pain of trying to talk to the lfs and explain them that it's not a bloody female and i want a female if they have one. I'm waiting to get a bolivian female as well for the male i have (you helped me sex him as well). I'm sure that's going to be incredibly hard as they are very hard to sex as well. oh the joy

Btw, how did you get away with having 4 apistos in a 35litre tank. Would love to see the tank pics

Thanks

 

[Curiosity101]

I literally just split them up into 2 pairs around 5 days ago. But before it was cause they're only youngsters. They'd bicker, but they hadn't quite come into their 'adult' personalities yet. It had just got to the point though where the dominant male and female were supressing the colours of the other male and female so I decided it was time to split them. However I have just recieved a massive order of plants from plants alive so I may post some pics of the 35l that the smaller pair are in later if you still wanted?

And would you like more pics of the smaller female in a bit?

 

[neo83]

I literally just split them up into 2 pairs around 5 days ago. But before it was cause they're only youngsters. They'd bicker, but they hadn't quite come into their 'adult' personalities yet. It had just got to the point though where the dominant male and female were supressing the colours of the other male and female so I decided it was time to split them. However I have just recieved a massive order of plants from plants alive so I may post some pics of the 35l that the smaller pair are in later if you still wanted?

And would you like more pics of the smaller female in a bit?

Ah nice. If only my wife will let me get more smaller tanks at least. Ofcourse i would love to see as many pics as you can show me if it's not too much of a hassle for you

 

[moochy13]

i saw a pair of these for 20 quid at my LFS, they were absolutely stunning. much better looking than the cockatoo i used to have. i almost brought them, but brought a plec instead.

great fish

 

[neo83]

i saw a pair of these for 20 quid at my LFS, they were absolutely stunning. much better looking than the cockatoo i used to have. i almost brought them, but brought a plec instead.

great fish

Absolutely!! I would love to have more apisto's but cant convince my wife for more tanks Hopefully i can get a female soon, as the females look absolutely stunning as well with their intense yellow. it's as if someone took the fish and dipped them in yellow paint

 

[Curiosity101]

Well well, you know how I was saying my female was yellow even though she wasn't of breeding age? Well my smaller 2.5-3cm female has just spawned in a cave. So I think we can safely add that to a reason why yours is male. As it seems to be well over the 3cm mark..?

 

[neo83]

Well well, you know how I was saying my female was yellow even though she wasn't of breeding age? Well my smaller 2.5-3cm female has just spawned in a cave. So I think we can safely add that to a reason why yours is male. As it seems to be well over the 3cm mark..?

I was observing the the supposed male over the last two days, and have seen a light black markings on the ventral fins, although they are very minimal and managed to see those markings on the big male macmasteri as well. So it might just be a normal thing. The fish is i think just over 3 cm without the caudal fin.

Managed to get any more pics for me . Saw your thread on the rasbora jumping out and you ripping the board off to save it