Angel fish as centerpiece in Molly tank?

[Stefan3289]

Hello all,

So I originally had 6 Cories and 7 mollies in my 29 gallon, all was great for a few months, but I am now down to 6 Cories and only 4 mollies. 2 got bent spine/ some neurological issue, I assume from bad genetics, and one of them had prolapse, so sadly nothing I could do I was wondering if instead of getting 2 more mollies to add to the tank, would I be able to get a singular angel fish as a center piece. If not, are there any other recommendations? I know 29 gallon is not too much to work with, doesn’t have to be a big fish just something a bit different and not tetras.

Tank stock
4 lyretail mollies
6 Cories (5 green, one pepper)

Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Temp: 76
Ph: 7.4-7.6
GH: 160 ppm (moderately soft)

Tank is well planted

 

[Alice B]

That soft water may be hurting your mollies, but I'm going to let someone else answer on the angel

 

[GaryE]

Soft water will cause neurological issues with mollies, who evolved over limestone bases in hard water. They need minerals. But 160ppm is mildly hard, to me. I bred generations of mollies in 140ppm water. Bent spines, unless they were bought that way, say disease rather than breeding.

I love mollies, but they are like big hungry dogs sometimes. They are very food oriented. When I've watched them in Belize, Mexico etc, they graze flat surfaces, picking through the algae.

Angels are flat surfaces. and in a small 29 gallon, some mollies will sample their flanks, discover that delicious fish slime and bother the angels to death. Mollies are one track eating machines (well there is another track in their lives.... breeding) and while they wouldn't do anything like that in nature, in a small aquarium, behaviour can go weird. It doesn't always happen, but it is a risk.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Hiya, Mollies are indeed a hardwater fish and ought to be in water with hardness levels of around 200ppm and up...there are always exeptions, GaryE did well to breed them in his softer water but as your Mollies are showing signs of poor development and are dying, you'd have to accept they're not going to do well for you and you may have to rethink what you want to keep. Angel fish would do well in your water I'd say

 

[Byron]

Mollies require harder water than you have. The reliable livebearer sources give 12 dH (214 ppm) as absolute minimum hardness. SF gives the range of 15-30 dH. The effect of damage from soft water is not always quickly seen, it can be a weakening over time leading to other problems the fish would not have in suitable water. Please, do not get more mollies or other common livebearers for that matter, they need the calcium in harder water to function.

Cories need a larger group, so doubling the six would be to their benefit. It can be the same species of another. But 10-12 is minimum, and a 29g can provide this.

Angelfish are shoaling/schooling fish, so a group is needed. A 29g is no where near sufficient space for this. With a body length of six inches and a vertical fin span of eight inches, angelfish are not small fish. A group needs a 5-6 foot tank, and depending upon how their temperaments and spawning develop, a much, much larger tank down the road. Keeping one angelfish is contrary to what the fish expects, and this is not humane. Look to other fish. If you want quiet sedate fish, some of the gourami would be good. Not all species, some get way too large, and some are quite aggressive, but there are calmer species.

 

[GaryE]

I caught wild mollies at 280 ppm. The issue is often "140 ppm of what" as the mineral makeup of the water can vary. I should have specified that. I had no problems with any livebearers or Goodeids with whatever was in that tap water.I had some species for several healthy generations - well over 10 years.

You could have a different mineral profile - the water I had was kept in limestone reservoirs, and limestone is a feature with most molly habitats.

 

[Essjay]

The issue is often "140 ppm of what" as the mineral makeup of the water can vary.

That's the trouble. GH is a measure of divalent metal ions, of which calcium and magnesium are the main constituents, but hardness is expressed as though it is all calcium carbonate.

 

[Stefan3289]

Thank you all for your replies. Seems like angel fish is not the way to go. As for my water being too soft, is there anyway I could increase it for the tank? I must have been told some wrong info earlier when I was debating what to stock my aquarium with a few months ago. I will add a few more Cories I had just treated my tank for intestinal worms two weeks ago, which after treatment is when all these deaths happened. I’m not sure if maybe that is a correlation. I also thought that bent spine disorder/disease was due to bad genetics such as overbreeding. I had two babies. One is still alive and the other one died with bent spine, which is the same condition his father died with a few days prior. What should be my course of action? Should I try to increase my Gh with those specific ions or should I remove my mollies?

 

[Essjay]

The way to increase GH for hard water fish is by adding Rift Lake Cichlid Salts. You would need a GH tester, and experiment with how much to add outside the tank. New water for a water change would need to be prepared before adding the water to the tank.

If you do make the water harder, you won't be able to keep soft water fish in the tank.

 

[Byron]

Agree with Essjay. Some fish species have more "adaptability" to the GH/pH than other species, but in almost all species this is not very great a range. The problem here is that the mollies are about the most demanding hardwater fish, and most livebearers share this to some extent. The cories on the other hand come from very soft water. The species mentioned do have some adaptability but they will also be very comfortable in the softer water you now have for them. It really is not worth the risk.

 

[Stefan3289]

Agree with Essjay. Some fish species have more "adaptability" to the GH/pH than other species, but in almost all species this is not very great a range. The problem here is that the mollies are about the most demanding hardwater fish, and most livebearers share this to some extent. The cories on the other hand come from very soft water. The species mentioned do have some adaptability but they will also be very comfortable in the softer water you now have for them. It really is not worth the risk.

Sounds like I’ll have to rehome the mollies. I’m not sure why I thought that they live in moderate waters rather than hard. I’ll keep the Cories as I do love them and will get more of them. I was doing the month long treatment for worms. Do you think that treatment has anything to do with it? All 3 of the deaths occurred after treatment, but I only had one death prior due to intestinal worms which is when I started treatment.

 

[GaryE]

There are two many groups of worms - tapeworm types handled by praziquantel and not usually fatal on their own, and nematodes like Camallanus, fatal on their own. If the Corys had Camallanus, even with the right treatment you could expect deaths. It isn't because of the meds, but because of the nematodes. They bite into the intestines, and as the meds make them release, it exposes bleeding areas that sometimes kill or become infected.

 

[Stefan3289]

There are two many groups of worms - tapeworm types handled by praziquantel and not usually fatal on their own, and nematodes like Camallanus, fatal on their own. If the Corys had Camallanus, even with the right treatment you could expect deaths. It isn't because of the meds, but because of the nematodes. They bite into the intestines, and as the meds make them release, it exposes bleeding areas that sometimes kill or become infected.

I used flubenzadole to treat the mollies as a few of them has symptoms of intestinal worms (white stringy poop, becoming skinny, lethargic overtime) and followed the directions Colin T has posted. The first one that died before I noticed and started treatment seemed like he was sick when I got him as he was skinny (which I thought maybe he just wasn’t fed well) and over several weeks got more and more skinny with white poop. All of the Cories are good none of them have passed away after the treatment they are all very happy and active, but I know shortly after the treatment my favorite Molly developed prolapse, and then a few days later suddenly one of the mollies had bent spine and died the next day, and a few days after that another one had bent spine, started spinning in circles, and died the next day. I’ve never had a death to bent spine disease or disorder prior to the mollies so it took me by surprise. Would this still be caused because of the Gh of the water?