Ammo Lock Question.....

[rdd1952]

You can leave the Matrix forever. I've had it in my Fluvals on my 75 gallon for over 2 years. It is also in my filter packs on my 29 gallon. When the bags get too worn and need to be replaced, I change bags but just move the Matrix into the new bag so I'm keeping my bacteria loss to a minimum.

 

[MattM1124]

You can leave the Matrix forever. I've had it in my Fluvals on my 75 gallon for over 2 years. It is also in my filter packs on my 29 gallon. When the bags get too worn and need to be replaced, I change bags but just move the Matrix into the new bag so I'm keeping my bacteria loss to a minimum.

O,ok thanks, that helps! So I guess I'll go out and get that matix stuff and when I get home I'll take the carbon out of the bag now, rinse it, put the matrix in, and then put it back into the tank. Sound like a good plan?

What does this matrix stuff do that's different from the stuff I have, but never used. Doesn't the matrix remove ammonia too?

Also should I stop doing water changes to see if the nitrate increases or what's the ebst way to check that?

thanks for all the help.

 

[rdd1952]

The matrix provides a surface for bacteria to colonize but doesn't remove anything from the tank. Since you are using a detoxifier, you can hold off on a water change for a day or so to see if the nitrate is rising.

 

[waterdrop]

This has been a great read for those of us who are inexperienced and looking at all the cycling threads - many thanks to RD and other commentators!

I couldn't understand this interaction between andywg and Tolak:

andywg:
"Any dechlorinator will contain sodium thiosulphate. This will break the bond between the ammonia and the chlora and neutralise the chlora. It will lead to a small amount of ammonia, but will not prevent AOB and NOB from forming. Those dechlorinators that state they fully deal with chloramine contain a slightly different chemical which splits the bond, neutralises the chlora and bonds to the ammonia (most likely creating ammonium). "

[What are AOB and NOB?]

Tolak:
"Hydromethane sulfinate. How it works in terms of chemistry I'm unsure, having never formally taken chemistry. Perhaps someone more well versed in this field will happen by & give me a free chem lesson."

[couldn't understand where Hydromethane sulfinate fit into the story..]

TIA,~~waterdrop~~

 

[MattM1124]

The matrix provides a surface for bacteria to colonize but doesn't remove anything from the tank. Since you are using a detoxifier, you can hold off on a water change for a day or so to see if the nitrate is rising.

ok I'll give it a try. Would you be able to post what all you have in your 29 gallon tank? I don't mean fish wise, I mean like that kind and power of the filter, what heater, any airstones, plants.

I just wanna compare what you have to mine since they are the same size tanks. Mine's the 29 gal but it's longer then it is high. It's 30 inches long and about 12 inches high. What light would be good for this size? I don't wanna have a light to bright so it promotes algae growth but I want a light suitable for the tank. Right now I have a 17 watt fluorescent one and it seems like ever since I got it algae is growing more. The one before this one came with the hood and it was a daylight light. Here's a pic of my tank so you can see the dimensions. I think the 17watt light may be to strong.

Do you have any pics of your tank?

 

[rdd1952]

Sounds like you have a standard 29 gallon tank like mine, 30" x 12" x 18". I have a Whisper 60 filter on it so I am over filtered. I think the heater is 150 watt but not certain. It's been a couple years since I got it. No airpump running. I have 2 65 watt power compact lights for a total of 130 watts for my plants but I usually leave one of the bulbs off (they have separate switches) as that still goves me over 2 wpg.

Since you don't have live plants, you really only need to have the lights on when you're there to see the fish. Your lights are fine and aren't too strong. That's what comes with the 29 gallon setups. Excess light will help trigger algae although it usually comes in conjunction with overfeeding. What type algae do you have? Your tank is relatively new and brown algae is quite common in new tanks. It will go away on it's own once the silicone that was used to seal the tank with finishes leeching silica out. Usually takes a couple months.

 

[MattM1124]

Sounds like you have a standard 29 gallon tank like mine, 30" x 12" x 18". I have a Whisper 60 filter on it so I am over filtered. I think the heater is 150 watt but not certain. It's been a couple years since I got it. No airpump running. I have 2 65 watt power compact lights for a total of 130 watts for my plants but I usually leave one of the bulbs off (they have separate switches) as that still goves me over 2 wpg.

Since you don't have live plants, you really only need to have the lights on when you're there to see the fish. Your lights are fine and aren't too strong. That's what comes with the 29 gallon setups. Excess light will help trigger algae although it usually comes in conjunction with overfeeding. What type algae do you have? Your tank is relatively new and brown algae is quite common in new tanks. It will go away on it's own once the silicone that was used to seal the tank with finishes leeching silica out. Usually takes a couple months.

Ok, I got a liquid Nitrite test and here are my numbers:

Ammonia - 8.0
ph - 6.0
nitrite-0
nitrate-10

So would you suggest that my tank is cycling again? And if so should I just keep doing a lot of water changes until it cycles? Also I got some of that |Matrix stuff you suggested. Should I start using that in my filter ASAP or wait until it cycles?

ALso I know my ph is low but i try and raise it all the time. it just stays low. Also isn't it good it's low for now since the ammonia is so high?

 

[rdd1952]

I would add some ot the matrix as soon as possible so it can start buiding bacteria. Put in an amount equal to an carbon you have so hopefully, the bacteria will be balanced once the cycle is complete. Then you can just remove the carbon. Continue with the wter changes. It is mind boggling that you can't get the ammonia down with the constant water changes. I don't understand what is going on to cause that. I'm not certain if the tankis cycling or not since the ammonia isn't dropping and the nitrate really doesn't seem to be rising. You may have to resort to a very large water change in the 75% range to try to get the ammonia to a readable level. The low pH is both good (makes the ammonia less toxic) and bad (bacteria reproduction slows at lower pH levels). Hopefully, daily (or several daily) water changes will keep the pH near tap pH.

 

[MattM1124]

I would add some ot the matrix as soon as possible so it can start buiding bacteria. Put in an amount equal to an carbon you have so hopefully, the bacteria will be balanced once the cycle is complete. Then you can just remove the carbon. Continue with the wter changes. It is mind boggling that you can't get the ammonia down with the constant water changes. I don't understand what is going on to cause that. I'm not certain if the tankis cycling or not since the ammonia isn't dropping and the nitrate really doesn't seem to be rising. You may have to resort to a very large water change in the 75% range to try to get the ammonia to a readable level. The low pH is both good (makes the ammonia less toxic) and bad (bacteria reproduction slows at lower pH levels). Hopefully, daily (or several daily) water changes will keep the pH near tap pH.

So you would recommend keeping the carbon in the filter and just add the matrix in with it? It is very confusing as to why the numbers are the way they are. Hopefully I can get this figured out soon. It's stressful lol. I should also keep using the ammo lock at every water change right? So I can keep the ammonia nontoxic?

I'll continue with the water changes and even do more at a time and also more frequently? Should I also still be cleaning the gravel during all this or just let it go until the water stabilizes?

 

[rdd1952]

I would leave the carbon in since any bacteria you do have (if the tank is cycling), would be present on the carbon so you don't want to throw awy what you have. Definitely continue with either the Prime or Ammo-Lock (don't know that both are necessary as they both do the same thing with ammonia). Cleaning the gravel is fine as long as you don't have an under gravel filter which Im sure you don't.

 

[MattM1124]

I just got done doing a 70% water change and adding the Matrix into the filter with the carbon. I tested the water about 30 mins later and the ammonia is still the same, very high. After the water change wouldn't the effects of the ammonia being less show up right away in the test or normally do you have to wait a while? I would think it would be instant.

I'm gonna do another water change very shortly.

 

[MattM1124]

I just did my second water change of the day and it looks as though the ammonia level dropped a little it looks like it is now in-between 2-4. I'm gonna do 2 big water changes tomorrow and hope it goes down even more.

Does it make a difference if the mouth of the filter (the part that throws the water back into the tank) is below the water level or can the water level be up past that mouth??

I usually keep the water level above the mouth do you think that could make any difference in the levels? I wouldn't think the tank water could run into the mouth of the filter and up into the cartridge since it flows down but who knows.

 

[rdd1952]

Having the outlt below the water is fine. Both f mine on my 75 gallon are. The HOB on the 29 gallon is too unless I get a lot of evaporation between water changes. The ammonia must have been super high that it only came down to a noticable difference after 2 large WCs. It sounds like your tank isn't cycling at all which makes no sense. What is your pH (you may have already said but I'm too lazy to go back through the thread)? A low pH can severely slow bacteria reproduction.

 

[MattM1124]

My PH was usually around 6.0. After doing these water changes it's about 7.0 where is should be. I'm gonna keep doing the water changes so that should keep if up for now. Once it cycles I'm gonna have to use that stuff that raises ph. Is that stuff ok to use? That's the only way I can keep it up. It always dips to below 6.

This is crazy, I swear my tank cycled before but I guess changing the filter caused it to cycle again and because my ph was so low it's going very slow. I learned my lesson and I hope my fish make it. I wanted to get more but I know I can't with water like this. Hopefully this clears up soon.

 

[rdd1952]

You want to avoid the pH altering chemicals. They cause way more problems than they solve. Once the tank cycles, the pH should stay closer to tap pH. If you do feel the need to raise it (or more correctly, buffer it), use a small amount of crushed coral in the filter, add a piece of tufa stone to the tank or use baking soda. The only down side to baking soda is that you have to add it to the new water each time you do a water change.