Ammo Lock Question.....

[andywg]

It appears to be sodium hydroxymethane sulfinate which is used in the chloramine dechlorinators. I am not sure of the actual reactions that take place though.

 

[raptorrex]

instead of masking the problem, would it not be better to sort out the filtration system you use, so it actually works?

That, the maintenance procedure followed, or the water supply that needs to be dealt with. Until then you are dealing with the symptoms, and not the problem.

ok i see.
it still seems to be a filtration problem, as opposed to a water supply issue. as a result i would suggest a change of filter, along with the suggestions on water conditioner to control the current problem.

 

[MattM1124]

instead of masking the problem, would it not be better to sort out the filtration system you use, so it actually works?

That, the maintenance procedure followed, or the water supply that needs to be dealt with. Until then you are dealing with the symptoms, and not the problem.

ok i see.
it still seems to be a filtration problem, as opposed to a water supply issue. as a result i would suggest a change of filter, along with the suggestions on water conditioner to control the current problem.

Are you suggesting a different brand of filter or do you just mean put a different cartridge in? If you're suggesting a different brand, which one do you prefer?

 

[MattM1124]

Ok, I went out and got a new Ammonia test kit. It still tested high but I'm going to leave my filter in there for a while and I also switched to the Prime water conditioner. I also did 2 water changes tonight so I'm gonna see how this goes and keep you all updated. Thanks for the help.

 

[MattM1124]

Just a little update guys. I've been doing about a 50% water change everyday. I then add a little aquarium salt and the tap water conditioner. My ammonia will still not go down at all. What else could be wrong?

Could it be the aquarium salt maybe? Or I still have the same filter in but it has the carbon in it. Can that cause high ammonia? Should I take the filter out and rinse it in the old water and take the carbon out and then put that same cartridge back in??

The only fish I have in the tank right now is a tequilla sunrise guppy, black neon tetra and a otocincus. It's a 29 gallon tank but it's longer then it is high.

I don't know what to do.

 

[rdd1952]

What ammonia reading are you getting and have you tested your tap water to make sure it isn't coming from there? Since you have been dealing with this for over 3 weeks now, the ammonia should have sorted itself out. I am leaning toward your problem being in your tap water considering that you only have 3 small fish in the tank. As far as the carbon is concerned, I would take it out and go with something like a ceramic type media. It can act as a biological filter but is mainly a chemical filter for removing medications from the water after treatment.

 

[newfishy]

umm I dont think you are suposta change the bio part of your filter...ever, and I would just swish it around in some old tank water if it gets filthy...any other way and you are removing a huge part of your benifical bacteria either by throwing them out, or rinsing them in tap water...the water straight out of the tap has the nasty stuff that kills the bacteria.

this could be why...if you are throwing out the part of your filter that contains the bacteria, you could be nearly starting a fresh cycle every time you change filters.

I over filter the heck out of my 29 gallon...I have a 10-20 gallon filter and a 20-40 gallon filter, it gives the good bacteria more room to spread out. and my fish like to play in the water current.

I wouldnt use the carbon filter unlese you have to, the carbon removes ammonia, but eventualy stops doing that and leaches it back into the tank, I would just get more sponges and ceramic rings to fill the space.

if I am retelling you things you already know or soembody else told you, sorry, just trying to help. hope things calm down in your tank soon

 

[MattM1124]

What ammonia reading are you getting and have you tested your tap water to make sure it isn't coming from there? Since you have been dealing with this for over 3 weeks now, the ammonia should have sorted itself out. I am leaning toward your problem being in your tap water considering that you only have 3 small fish in the tank. As far as the carbon is concerned, I would take it out and go with something like a ceramic type media. It can act as a biological filter but is mainly a chemical filter for removing medications from the water after treatment.

The ammonia reading I'm getting is 8.0 PPM and I have tested the water that I use and there isn't any ammonia in it. My ph is relatively though so hopefully it's not causing the fish much stress and I have been doing a lot of water changes.

What do you mean by ceramic type media? And you think I should take my cartridge out and remove the carbon and then put that same cartage back in the filter just without the carbon?

thanks

 

[MattM1124]

umm I dont think you are suposta change the bio part of your filter...ever, and I would just swish it around in some old tank water if it gets filthy...any other way and you are removing a huge part of your benifical bacteria either by throwing them out, or rinsing them in tap water...the water straight out of the tap has the nasty stuff that kills the bacteria.

this could be why...if you are throwing out the part of your filter that contains the bacteria, you could be nearly starting a fresh cycle every time you change filters.

I over filter the heck out of my 29 gallon...I have a 10-20 gallon filter and a 20-40 gallon filter, it gives the good bacteria more room to spread out. and my fish like to play in the water current.

I wouldnt use the carbon filter unlese you have to, the carbon removes ammonia, but eventualy stops doing that and leaches it back into the tank, I would just get more sponges and ceramic rings to fill the space.

if I am retelling you things you already know or soembody else told you, sorry, just trying to help. hope things calm down in your tank soon

So would you suggest me taking the carbon out of that filter by swishing it around in some old tank water and then put that same bio bag back in the filter just without the carbon? I've had this cartridge in for weeks now so I don't wanna switch it but I do wanna get the carbon out but would that work? I have a 40 gallon filter and I also have a 14" air wand in the tank. Also, what do you mean about getting ceramic rings?

Thanks for all the info, I can never have enough when it comes to this hobby!

 

[rdd1952]

With just those 3 fish in the tank and you doing 50% WCs daily, I can't see anyway the ammonia should still be 8 ppm unless the carbon is leeching ammonia back into the tank which I doubt is the case. I would change tha carbon to something like Seachem Matrix or some other type of ceramic media. I would work on more frequent water changes up to 3 or 4a day until you get the ammonia back down. If you're using Prime or Ammo-Lock, the ammonia isn't toxic but a level that high will severely slow the cycling process. Are you seeing any levels of nitrite or nitrate?

 

[MattM1124]

With just those 3 fish in the tank and you doing 50% WCs daily, I can't see anyway the ammonia should still be 8 ppm unless the carbon is leeching ammonia back into the tank which I doubt is the case. I would change tha carbon to something like Seachem Matrix or some other type of ceramic media. I would work on more frequent water changes up to 3 or 4a day until you get the ammonia back down. If you're using Prime or Ammo-Lock, the ammonia isn't toxic but a level that high will severely slow the cycling process. Are you seeing any levels of nitrite or nitrate?

I'm not sure what you mean when you say ceramic media? Also couldn't I just keep using those cartridges I have and just not add the carbon into them. That way none of it will seep out in the future.

I have all liquid kits except for the nitrite levels. I will be getting one though.

My nitrate is reading in-between 5.0 ppm and 10 ppm. My nitrite as per one of those dip strips is reading 0.

 

[rdd1952]

There are a lot of ceramic medias out there like this, this or this. You would probably have to crush the larger ring types to fit them into the bio-bags but that's relatively easy to do. You can use the cartridge alone but it is mainly the mechanical filter and may not offer enough surface area for the bacteria to colonize.

Since you don't show any nitrite, there are 2 possibilities. One is that ammonia is not being processed at all which I would think is doubtful after all this time. Second is that it is being processed slowly so that the nitrite oxidizing bacteria are able to keep all nitrite processed into nitrate. It really is key to know whether the nitrate level is rising or not. If it isn't, then no ammonia is being processed meaning that the tank hasn't even started to cycle.

 

[MattM1124]

There are a lot of ceramic medias out there like this, this or this. You would probably have to crush the larger ring types to fit them into the bio-bags but that's relatively easy to do. You can use the cartridge alone but it is mainly the mechanical filter and may not offer enough surface area for the bacteria to colonize.

Since you don't show any nitrite, there are 2 possibilities. One is that ammonia is not being processed at all which I would think is doubtful after all this time. Second is that it is being processed slowly so that the nitrite oxidizing bacteria are able to keep all nitrite processed into nitrate. It really is key to know whether the nitrate level is rising or not. If it isn't, then no ammonia is being processed meaning that the tank hasn't even started to cycle.

Do you think I should stop doing water changes for a little bit and see if the nitrate raises? Also I actually have something that looks like your last link. I have HBH Aqua-pure ammonia reducer. It says it removes ammonia, keeps water healthy. Is this similiar to the stuff you were talking about or should I get that matrix stuff?

Also would I just use this stuff in place of the carbon? Here's a pic of the stuff I have:

 

[rdd1952]

Actually, if you are using that product, it is probably the cause of your problem. You don't want any product that removes ammonia. It will become saturated in a short period of time and need recharging. If you don't recharge or replacce it, then the ammonia will build. And since it is being adsorbed by the media, the ammonia isn't available to the bacteria to feed on thus meaning the tank never cycles. If you are using that, it could be that it has become saturated and is now leeching it back into the tank and there isn't any bacteria to process it or even if it isn't leeching it out, it still can't adsorb any more so the ammonia builds. I would definitely not use it.

 

[MattM1124]

Actually, if you are using that product, it is probably the cause of your problem. You don't want any product that removes ammonia. It will become saturated in a short period of time and need recharging. If you don't recharge or replacce it, then the ammonia will build. And since it is being adsorbed by the media, the ammonia isn't available to the bacteria to feed on thus meaning the tank never cycles. If you are using that, it could be that it has become saturated and is now leeching it back into the tank and there isn't any bacteria to process it or even if it isn't leeching it out, it still can't adsorb any more so the ammonia builds. I would definitely not use it.

I actually have never used it. I bought it awhile back but decided it probably wouldn't be good to use. That Seachem Matrix stuff that you linked, if I use that would I just leave that stuff in my filter until the water clears up or how would I go about using that stuff?