Air Stone With Plants?

[mitch70]

I have had conflicting view points regarding the above.
 
I currently run an air stone 24/7 (I like the effect)
 
Is this detrimental to the plants? i.e do the bubble disperse co2?
 
I also currently run a power head along side the filter, am I just wasting electricity running the air stone
 
Thanks.

 

[techen]

Yes, You aren't gaining any benefit from the airstone, The plants will produce oxygen and use up CO2.  But the airstone removes the CO2 and the plants will suffer for it.

 

[KirkyArcher]

Just my learnings from my set up and yet again a conflicting one, It takes exactly the same amount of time to get my Co2 readings to show up at 20mg/l in my 125l tank each morning with an air stone running as it does with it switched off, indicating to me that running an air stone does not remove dissolved Co2 to any great degree if at all

 

[draxis]

I looked this up because i wanted to know myself when debating using this new air pump i was given.

I found this... Care more about the water temp then the bubbler or airstone or power head. Warmer temp = less oxygen IE 85 degrees 5.5pmm or less and at 76 7.0-7.5ppm. They tested a power head w/ air stones, air stones, etc. The only thing more stones did was speed up the exhange rate but it did not affect the co2 or oxygen, unless the tempature reached 85+

"All I know is, the pH swing due to the loss of CO2 is minimal and gradual,
and I've never had any fish stress or deaths due to pH swings. I *have* had
fish stress and deaths due to O2 starvation, sometimes even when the plants
were bubbling like
crazy the day before. I haven't lost a single fish in the 2-3 months I've
been running the airstone at night."

http/www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/airstone.html

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The reason its important at night is that plants take up oxygen at night....

 

[draxis]

From his point do you care more about your fish or plants? It will not hurt your fishes to blast oxygen every where and there is no clear scientific test i can find showing co2 is truly disolved by turbulance like other gasses. Ultrasonic level of high enough frequency but a bubbler? It seems like a very common popular debate but in this hobby ive learned some people only will believe what they have done. There are many ways to run your aquarium so if your fish are fine and have a quicker oxygen exchange i would say its a good thing. The plants will use oxygen so make sure there is enough less for your fish: bubbler.

 

[snazy]

I *have* had
fish stress and deaths due to O2 starvation, sometimes even when the plants
were bubbling like.
crazy the day before. I haven't lost a single fish in the 2-3 months I've
been running the airstone at night."
 
 

 
This is not O2 starvation, it's CO2 intoxication. Signs are fish get quet, start hiding, or gasping at the surface, refusing to eat, death, etc..
Air stone at night prevents high CO2 levels from building up. Other than that in a well planted tank the oxygen the plants produce can be higher than you can get with surface movement or airstones.

To answer mitch70's question. I've got a low tech tank in which I've always had an airstone and I haven't noticed any bad effects on my plants, all growing well and my dwarf hairgrass has made almost a full carpet.  But in a low tech tank good surface movement could be beneficial as it constantly replenishes not only O2, but CO2 from air. CO2 is easily diffused but it's also easier dissolved in water, compared to oxygen.
In a high tech tank the injected CO2 levels are way higher to those that can be aqcuired via surface movement, and an airstone can downgrade the levels of CO2, therefore airstone is not desired during the photoperiod. With lights off it don't matter and can be even beneficial to prevent low O2 and toxic concentrations of CO2 because the plants stop using CO2 at night.

 

[mitch70]

Thanks for the replies, I will leave it running seems as if it will have some benefits to my low tech set up and as I said I like the look anyway, again thanks

 

[Zante]

Basically this is the way I see it. I can't be bothered to do the science because I don't particularly like the effect of an airstone and all my tanks are planted, but please do tell me what you think about this reasoning.
 
An airstone increases the exchange of gas between the air and the water. That means that the oxygen depleted by the fish while breathing will be replenished more quickly.
 
That also means that the CO2 depleted by the plants would be replaced more quickly, if the fish didn't contribute CO2 through breathing. How this balances out, depends very much on the balance of light, nutrients, plants and fish in each aquarium.
 
If you are adding CO2 to the water you could

1. Strike the balance and therefore the extra gas exchange would make no difference. You are adding as much CO2 as the plants are depleting minus the CO2 the fish are contributing.
2. Add less CO2, which would mean that the airstone would actually help the water absorb CO2 from the air. That also means that the CO2 you are adding is wasted, as the gas exchange with the air would take care of that
3. You are adding more CO2 than the simple gas exchange would allow, therefore having more CO2 in the water that you would have with the simple gas exchange with the air. If you increase the gas exchange then this extra CO2 will be dissipated.

In fairness cases 1 and 2 are pointless, and by that I mean that whether you have CO2 injection or not that will make no difference to the CO2 content in the water, so they should not be considered.
 
Case 3 is the only case where injecting CO2 makes sense, as you would have a result. That also means that if you are increasing the gas exchange with the air, the water will be releasing more of the extra CO2 that you have been adding.

 

[draxis]

Ok but if you turn your tank 10x an hour like any expert will say to.... You shouldnt have co2 issues, lol.

 

[draxis]

I found a use to the air pump...  Two of my fish decided to show signs of ICH which I cannot trace back to what was added/if it was in the tank or water I received way back when; when water quality spiked, out it came.
 
I decided to crank up the tempature slowly but surely which lowers oxygen.  I jammed a line into my tree stump and turned it into an air bubbling machine.  Looks cool and no fish are floating around at the top even in 85 degrees.
 

 

[fm1978]

Sorry if this point has been made before, but, don't forget, with an air pump, you're not bubbling pure oxygen into your tank and displacing CO2. It's an AIR pump and therefore pumps AIR. So, it'll be bubbling Nitrogen, Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide (among others) into your tank. 

 

[draxis]

Sorry if this point has been made before, but, don't forget, with an air pump, you're not bubbling pure oxygen into your tank and displacing CO2. It's an AIR pump and therefore pumps AIR. So, it'll be bubbling Nitrogen, Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide (among others) into your tank. 

 
Right but it further agitates the surface which speeds the exchange rates.  I also know about CO2 being 'distrubuted' by this but no scientist will confirm or prove that "bubblers" will remove any CO2 at all.  They use ultrasonic waves to disperse CO2 not air bubbles. 
 
There is no oxygen in the bubbles, the reaction all happens at the surface.  This will, increase oxygen, over time (1-2 hours and so on) as the agitation of the surface is increased.  It can be distructive to plants if you truly believe 'bubbles' will distrupt CO2 which again, not scientifictly proven.  Only ultrasonic is proven, not air bubbles.
Distributed = disturbed. Good ol iphone