Adf, Possible Illness?

[Jenste]

if you have the accomodations...can you set up a small separate tank and move the frogs into it alone? then you can add 1/3 - 1/2 dosage of salt you normally would....and do as many water changes as you physically can....it is the biggest thing you can do. a sep tank will allow you to focus on the frogs, and it can be as small as a half gallon - - you want low water at this point. see if there is a way that you can keep the water stable at mid 60s-mid 70s.....as long as it doesnt change vastly in either direction it won't matter much.

 

[nessar]

I have a 2 gallon makeshift hospital I could move them to, my platy is almost better and she'd be okay in the main tank for a week or so, she just has to regrow her fin now i think.

But the problem is it doesnt have a filter, and the heater is so big that I have to keep it almost full, which is 9 inches. I can't keep it heated any other way, the temperature in this house goes up and down like a yoyo.

So I dont know whether it would be better to keep them in the main tank and add salt to that, it might do more harm than good to move them. I could also remove a few decorations to make observing them easier, although they wouldnt have as many places to hide.

I could lower the water more in the main tank to 6-7 inches? So half full. But that would mean I had 2 ADFs, 2/3 platys, 3 apple snails (the smaller kind), various ramshorn snails and 1 cherry shrimp in about 30 litres, 6/7 gallons of water. Would this make me overstocked? I can easily continue with the daily waterchanges. Might remove snails because of the salt too, dont know how they would be with it.

 

[nessar]

Or I could put them in the betta trap? But that only gives them 2 litres to move around, dont know how theyd like that as they are still active currently, just not as quick.

 

[Night61]

try doing frequent water changes first, before medications, frogs are sensitive. i would isolate him for a bit.

 

[Jenste]

i would move them to the 2 gallon hospital tank with heater - -

 

[nessar]

Okay will move them to the 2 gallon. I will put moss balls in for hiding but not coconuts as I cant see them then. Barebottomed as well. Sound okay?

What temperature would be best?

How long do you think it would take for ammonia levels to build up? Would changing 50% daily be okay do you think? I will test the water, but just want to prevent seeing ANY ammonia.

How much salt? I use normal table salt, but it has no additives or iodine in it so should be okay. In my book it says for a salt bath for fish add 1/2 a teaspoon twice a day for 2 gallon, and let it build up over a week. So should I just add 1/4 of a teaspoon and leave it at that?

Oh and how often should I feed?

sorry about the multitude of questions, want to get it right and have them survive.

 

[Jenste]

bare bottom is fine - - lets you see how much they are eating and if they are producing waste and shedding skins.

mid to low 70s F works well

frogs aren't as sensitive to ammonia like fish. mostly you are changing the water to help them get better...not so much for ammonia purposes. being air breathers, the ammonia has to be quite quite high in order for them to feel an effect.

that is a good amount of salt - - - less is better than too much!

feed very small amounts daily - - keep them interested by maybe mixing up brine shrimp/bloodworms/beef heart (yummy smelly foods!)

 

[nessar]

Right, all done, that took a while!

They're worse than fish to catch, cause they slip a leg round the side of the net so you have to back off so you dont crush them!

They seem to be making the distance to air okay. I got it down to 8 inches by moving the heater around. One of them is taking his time about it though

I think I will feed them tomorrow, doubt theyd eat now after that stress. Will keep you posted. If you think of anything else I can do, let me know. Or if you miraculously discover a frog-safe med available in the UK. If they survive this and get better I think I'll have Maroxy shipped. I just hope they get better!

 

[nessar]

Just noticed a new symptom! The frog that is having difficulty has red legs! I didnt notice before because it is the underside of his legs, amd i dont see him much. He is also coming up for air every minute, sometimes sooner. He is bumping into the sides of the container a lot, quite hard I would say as its making a noise.

The dead one didnt have red legs, could this be a secondary illness or a symptom of the first?

Saw something about red legs in african CLAWED frogs earlier, so will check it out.


Red Leg - Caused by Aeromonas hydrophila, Proteus hydrophilus and Pseudomonas hydrophilus. These types of bacteria are often present in the aquarium but do not affect the frog. The bacteria is opportunistic and attacks frogs which have a weak immune system or have been stressed. Ulcers and haemorrhages can often be seen in the legs and belly of the frogs, once these symptoms appear it is usually too late for the frog. The frogs suffering with red leg often die suddenly without warning. Symptoms of the disease include excess mucus production, skin discoloration and reddening of the belly and legs of the frog. Treaments that are effective include administering Tetracycline orally or using Baytril. Adding salt to the water while treatment is going on may increase survival rates of the frogs.



on this page here http/clawedfrogs.tripod.com/id6.html it reccomends using tropical fish medication for internal bacteria. can this be right? wont my frogs be super sensitive to it?


also read of melafix being used to treat frogs. not sure if it would help with a bacterial problem? Because this is one i CAN get in the UK !! I can get it at my lfs, so would be able to get monday. Should I?

 

[nessar]

On a closer look theyre more pinkish than red.

They are eating really well. They float, but not for too long.

 

[Night61]

my expereince they do love to escape, when upgrading to the bigger tank i had one jump out of the net an hop around the room for a bit before i recaptured the little #28###.

just see if the clean water helps, i hope for the best for you and your little froggy freind.

 

[nessar]

Okay well they were getting more and more lethargic so I decided if I wanted them to survive I would have to take a risk with meds. Contacted Mars representative on here about API melafix and she said:


Technically it's just a fish medication, it isn't marketed for amphibians so API don't have an official 'line' on this, but in practise people do use it on amphibians and it seems to be absolutely fine. As far as I'm aware people in this situation use the standard dose, as you would do for fish.

so im taking a risk and using it to see if it helps. The active ingredient is an essential oil so its not loads of chemicals. Have put the first dose in 6 hours ago and they seem okay. Fingers crossed!

 

[loraxchick]

sounds internal. melafix would be completely useless (and honestly id stay away from the stuff in every scenario-fish or no fish). i also wouldnt add salt. frogs have delecate skin and aquarium salts may make his slime coat thick and add to more shedding and stress. amphibians on the whole are very sensitive to chemicals (used as "bioindicators" in ecological health studies).
id keep up with water changes, lower temp to around 76 and use medicated food. if you cant find any medicated food, you can get a good broad spectrum antibiotic if you are able, and make your own. i can give you instructions. there are good links about preparing your own medicated food. google is great for that.
sorry your frog is sick. they are a bit trickier to treat than fish as they are so sensitive (i wouldnt say fragile-just more prone to environmental factors than fish which may have started before you even got them).
best of luck. keep us posted.
cheers