2 year old tank is not cycled!!!

[Laura89]

Hi,
I'm looking for some advice on what I'm doing wrong as I have 2 tanks and neither are cycled.

Tank 1 has 1 blackmoor goldfish that is 2 years old. It is a 90 litre tank and I hopefully will put the fish in a bigger tank when needs be. We had a 2nd blackmoor in there who was approx 1 year old. Woke up one morning and he was dead. There was no sign of anything wrong with him. There is no substrate in there except from a few rocks. It has a fluval u2 filter and a random wee filter (can't remember the brand) that agitates the water as drops water on the surface. It has cycled many times but seems to crash every now and then and I don't know why. Current parameters are:
Ph 6.0
Nitrites 0
Ammonia 1.0
Nitrates 5.0
I don't think I overfeed. I clean the filter in fish water every few months or when it's visibly a bit of a mess. I use stress coat and prime according to the instructions.

2nd tank has 2 (was 8 but lost a few recently) danios and 5 five banded barbs in it. Its approx 100 litres, bought 2nd hand so don't know exact. It also has a fluval u2 filter and use the same products as 1st tank.

The fish were all healthy and happy as far as I could see for a long time. We would occasionally get a sick one but generally they were fine. Now I have sick fish in both tanks and both according to parameter readings are uncycled. I have lost a lot of danios recently. Some of them were near 2 years old and suddenly got red gills and abdominal area. Flukes? Dropsy?

I went to a fish pet store yesterday that seemed very confused as to why my tanks aren't cycled. They gave me two different types of bacteria to help it along. I wondered if PH has anything to do with it?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I work so hard with these tanks and don't know what I'm doing wrong

Thanks

 

[Essjay]

At pH 6.0 you don't need to worry about an ammonia reading. Ammonia exists in 2 forms in water - toxic ammonia and much less toxic ammonium. The amount in each form varies with pH and at pH 6.0 the overwhelming majority is ammonium. Our test kits measure ammonia and ammonium combined, they don't say how much is in each form.

How often do you do water changes, and how much do you change each time?

 

[Ichthys]

The Fluval U2 is a terrible filter. The surface area of the media is tiny. You probably just need a bigger filter.

 

[Lcc86]

I think uncycled is the wrong term, as ichthys has said your filter may not be able to cope which will cause problems, or you might not be changing enough water.

If you get the measurements of your tanks you should be able to work out how many litres/gallons they hold and then find filters that can cope with that size.

 

[Laura89]

Thank you for all of your replies, very helpful.
So is ammonium non toxic?
I use a 12 litre water bucket for water changes weekly. Sometimes a bit more, I've been doing bigger water changes since the danios got sick.
I did wonder if the filter was the problem. If I change the filter now I assume that would also effect the cycle?
Thanks

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

I'd say put some gravel or sand in the goldfish tank to increase surface area for the BB to grow. I'm sure you're aware goldfish are gross and even with just one fish I'd be doing massive water changes on that tank one or twice a week.

Post some pictures so we can have a look we may be able to spot something?

 

[Laura89]

Ok, I will attempt to get some pictures.
Yeah goldfish produce a lot of waste!! She's a cool fish though so I try everything to keep her going. She was very healthy until the last month with a cloudy eye and white fungus looking stuff on her. Treated her with melafix and salt over the last few weeks and she's getting better. The five banded barbs are great and aren't aggressive like tiger barbs, they don't seem to be affected by whatever has got the danios.

 

[Ichthys]

If I change the filter now I assume that would also effect the cycle?

No. Put the foams from the current filter into the new filter. You can cut them up to fit. That way you’ll keep the bacteria.

In acidic water ammonia isn’t toxic (because it’s ammonium). But it’s still dangerous because
it will be toxic when it’s turned into nitrite.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The first things I would do is to pour the stress coat down the toilet.

The next thing is for you to know more about Prime. To that end please go here https://www.seachem.com/prime.php and then click on the link for FAQ and then read the following two sections:

Q. I am using Prime® to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything, in fact it looks like it added ammonia! What is going on?
and
Q. I tested my tap water after using Prime® and came up with an ammonia reading. Is this because of chloramine? Could you explain how this works in removing chloramine?

Cycling is a process and it works a specific way. One way is that more ammonia means more nitrite. So the fact that you have ammonia means you should also have nitrite, but you do not. That would suggest that maybe you do not really have ammonia.

Yes, is is true that ammonium (NH4) is much less harmful than ammonia (NH3), but that does not mean that the NH4 is not doing any harm, assuming that you reading is real. Prolonged exposure to NH4 is harmful to fish.

Next, you do not report any numbers for either GH or KH and these are important to know. KH is what keeps pH stable and the higher the KH, the higher the pH will usually be. I do not keep goldies but my understanding is they need a pH much higher than yours is. Over 7 for sure though they can handle it down to about 6.5. One the other hand they can do well on soft or hard water. While your 6.0 pH is making ammonia less harmful, it is also stressing the fish as they much prefer alkaline water not acid.

Next, you do not report your water temperature either. Goldies tend to do best in cooler water, they are not tropical fish. Lastly, what are you feeding? When it comes to keeping fish healthy water quality/parameters and diet as well as tank size and layout all matter.

It doesn't matter if you have NH3 or NH4, either will get the cycle started.

Finally, no matter what the store folks tell you, there are only two bacterial products that contain the right bacteria- Dr. Tim's One and Only and Tetra's Safe Start (or Safe Start +).

 

[Laura89]

Ok, great information. Trying to take it all in and figure out what's going on. I'm so interested in the cycling process, love having fish and am very willing to learn.

My test kit doesn't have GH or KH but I can get a test kit for it tomorrow.

I'm willing to get a better filter for both tanks and will take the filter media out of the existing ones. Any recommendations? Blackmoors are bad swimmers are get blown about by filters that are too strong. The other tank loves a strong current and swim against it.

I will happily stop using stress coat. Is it unnecessary/bad?

My tanks recently have been reading low levels of nitrite. It's the test I did today after adding bacteria 3 days ago that show zero nitrite.

 

[Laura89]

The bacteria I got was from maidenhead aquatics and its microbe lift nite out and the other microbe lift special blend

 

[Naughts]

My test kit doesn't have GH or KH but I can get a test kit for it

Can you check your water providers website? Their water quality report might give the water hardness (GH) and alkalinity (KH). Saves the cost of buying a testing kit as the readings remain relatively consistant. If you find it, post the readings and units on here. @Essjay is great at decoding the information.

e bacteria I got was from maidenhead aquatics and its microbe lift nite out

I have read that also has the correct ingredients (on FishLab) so that's promising.

Can you test the pH of your tap/ source water after it has sat overnight in a glass (to allow gases to dissipate so you get a true reading)? Then we can see if this is different to the tank pH or not.

 

[Laura89]

Yeah I will put out a water jug tonight and test it tomorrow at the same time. I'm will have a look at water providers. Is anyone in Scotland who might know?

 

[Laura89]

I looked into the seachem prime site as TwoTankAmin said and it says it can give false amonia readings. I would then think that maybe they have been cycled but why would it show nitrite and nitrate?

 

[Naughts]

Is anyone in Scotland who might know?

I'm not, but the parameters will differ according to your postcode in Scotland as the source waters differ with location.

Water Quality Search - Scottish Water

Water Quality Search

www.scottishwater.co.uk