Natural fish that live with angelfish?

[King puff]

we put salt in the water softener, this charges up the membrane. Water from the street goes into the membrane and the hard ions get pulled out. Im pretty sure this is how ours works.

 

[Byron]

we put salt in the water softener, this charges up the membrane. Water from the street goes into the membrane and the hard ions get pulled out. Im pretty sure this is how ours works.

OK, then I would not use that water for any soft water fish. The sodium is too high.

 

[King puff]

thats what I thought. So can I mix it with RO water. And why are my 29 gallon fish doing well. They are tetras.

 

[Byron]

thats what I thought. So can I mix it with RO water. And why are my 29 gallon fish doing well. They are tetras.

No, the salt in the softener water is harmful to fish. My article explains this:
http://wetwebmedia.com/SaltArtHosking.htm

The fish in the 29g may not be doing so well. If they live to their normal expected lifespan, and spawn along the way, maybe. But this rarely is the case. Fish exposed to various substances or inappropriate conditions tend to be under stress, and this weakens them. Plus there are the direct effects of whatever it is on the fish's physiology or metabolism, or the functioning of their homeostasis. The usual external sign is death, earlier than normal. We must understand the complex internal biological processes of fish and how these are impacted by any factor that is outside the norm for the fish. Otherwise, we are likely to assume wrongly. The blue citation in my signature.

 

[King puff]

My black neon tetras recently spawned.

 

[King puff]

And courting behavior is being observed with other fish in the tank.

 

[Byron]

And courting behavior is being observed with other fish in the tank.

That's not it. The lifespan is about the only real indicator that all is or isn't well.

A study in Germany a couple decades ago looked into the effect of hard water on cardinal tetras. They found that the harder the water, the shorter the lifespan. Dissection after death showed calcium blockage of the kidneys. There were no external signs of anything wrong, the fish lived "fine" until they just died.

The article I linked will explain what salt does. Some species have greater tolerance than others.

 

[King puff]

Ok. Any way I can get around this problem.

 

[Byron]

Ok. Any way I can get around this problem.

I already mentioned (1) see if you can bypass the softener--some people have it for the kitchen tap only, or something. (2) confirm the unit of measurement for those GH numbers. We are only guessing until the data is known.

 

[King puff]

Ok. I will try to find the GH as soon as possible. will distilled water work?

 

[Byron]

Ok. I will try to find the GH as soon as possible. will distilled water work?

Distilled water, like RO water, can be mixed in with harder water (like tap water not running through a softener). The "pure" water dilutes the minerals and may also lower the pH. Once we know the actual GH of the source water we will bee able to estimate the mixing proportions.

Example. If the source water has a GH of 16 dGH, and you mix it half/half with pure water, the GH of the mixed water would be 8 dGH. The KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) would also be halved. The same mix would be required for every water change for the volume of water changed.

 

[King puff]

https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservicessite/documents/wsdprimarywqr.pdf

this is our water quality report

 

[Essjay]

The hardness they give is the maximum and minimum of several samples; you need the mean which they don't give.

But it will be somewhere between the two values so approximately 250 ppm and 15 grains per gallon.
There is a calculator in the drop down menu under How To Tips at the top of the page, and one section is on hardness. The unit 'US Hardness' is actually grains per gallon.
Entering 15 g/gall in the calculator gives 258 ppm and 14.4 dH. These are the two figures to use when looking at fish profiles.

 

[Byron]

https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservicessite/documents/wsdprimarywqr.pdf

this is our water quality report

essjay has explained the GH. I noticed the KH is also given, so I will explain that.

First, as essjay noted, the GH is a range from 204 to 306 ppm. This unit (ppm) is one the hobby uses, and another common one is degrees (dGH or dH). You can convert between these two by using 17.9 and multiplying dGH by 17.9 or dividing ppm by 17.9 to get the equivalent. This is useful, as some sites use one or the other; I personally like the dGH because the numbers are smaller and I can remember them better. So here the range in degrees is from 11 to 16 dGH.

The carbonate hardness (KH, also called Alkalinity) is related, and important because this is the buffering aspect of pH. The higher the KH, the less the pH will fluctuate which means it will also not be adjustable without reducing the GH/KH. The three are linked. You have a KH between 98 ppm (=5 dKH) and 211 ppm (= 11.7 dKH). [The same 17.9 formula works with KH as GH.] This means that organics like the leaves mentioned earlier in this thread will have little or probably no effect on the pH, which will remain what it is in the source water.

Diluting the source water (pre-softener remember) with pure water will proportionally lower the GH/KH.

 

[King puff]

sorry that I have not responded in a while, Byron. I finally realized that the water I have been using is not going through the softener. I will start mixing it with RO water before I put it in the tank. I am still not sure about stocking it though. I really want to put I African butterfly fish in. I understand that this and the angles are from different parts of the world, but according to seriously fish the African butterfly fish and the angelfish have a pH of (6.0-7.4). My stocking ideas were 1 ABF, 5 petrophyllum scalare, whiptail catfish, 10 corys?