Will plants prevent the new tank cycling?

[Lajos_Detari]

Hi all,
I am planning to start a new tank with plants.
But I am wondering when should I add the plants.
If I add the plants at the beginning before the cycling, will it stop the cycling of the tank?
Thanks in advance for your answer.

 

[Salty&Onion]

I don't think so, no. I believe that plants don't use up too much ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I always had success in cycling my tanks with plants in, plants actually help lower the levels but certainly don't use all of them.

 

[Byron]

Plants take up ammonia, and they do this faster than the nitrifying bacteria. These will still establish, more slowly, and in the background (you will never see ammonia or nitrite above zero with live plants if they are growing). The pH and temperature are factors too.

Cycling the tank first with ammonia, then waiting several weeks for numbers to be zero and adding plants, is really wasting time. When you add the plants, they still take up ammonia/ammonium more rapidly than the bacteria (all else being equal, and depending upon the plant species and numbers obviously), so now all the established bacteria will go into dormancy because they will no longer have "food."

 

[seangee]

Plants will slow or prevent growth of beneficial bacteria but it really doesn't matter.
In really simple non scientific terms (taking a leaf from @essjay's book because I liked her orange juice analogy )

Plants and bacteria eat the same food (ammonia) but plants are greedier. If you have a few plants they will leave some food for the bacteria, but there will be less of it so the bacteria grows slowly. If you have a lot of plants they will eat all the food and leave nothing for bacteria which means the bacteria will starve and die. It doesn't matter because the food is poisonous to fish. They don't care who eats it as long as there is none left.

I am relying on this in my newest tank. I planted a few plants and then crammed the top of the tank with fast growing floating plants (the faster they grow the greedier they are ). A week later, once I was sure everything was growing I added fish. As a responsible fish keeper I am still testing for ammonia and nitrites daily but have never seen any - and I am feeding the fish normally. Its only 2 weeks old so its impossible that the filter has cycled. It probably never will, but it doen't matter because the system as a whole is dealing with all of the ammonia.

Note to anyone planning this in case you have seen pics and know how many fish I added : when I say crammed the floating plants in I mean full scale jungle. If I only relied on the stem plants you can see in the pics I would probably be in serious trouble by now

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Thanks Byron, Seangee for the useful information!
And thanks Salty too for taking the time to reply.

Haha, I think I can follow Seangee's method of putting many plants.
But my bio-load will be low.
I will dose liquid fertilizer and probably trace elements for the plants.
I found one brand of fertilizer and trace elements though its not a reputable brand.
I hope it's ok and won't cause any problem in the future when I will add some shrimps.

 

[Byron]

Thanks Byron, Seangee for the useful information!
And thanks Salty too for taking the time to reply.

Haha, I think I can follow Seangee's method of putting many plants.
But my bio-load will be low.
I will dose liquid fertilizer and probably trace elements for the plants.
I found one brand of fertilizer and trace elements though its not a reputable brand.
I hope it's ok and won't cause any problem in the future when I will add some shrimps.

Make sure the plant fertilizer product(s) are intended for an aquarium; preparations for terrestrial plants are different and have ingredients that can (= will) cause algae problems and fish issues. But among aquarium plant products, certainly not all are good. Post and link and we can check.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Make sure the plant fertilizer product(s) are intended for an aquarium; preparations for terrestrial plants are different and have ingredients that can (= will) cause algae problems and fish issues. But among aquarium plant products, certainly not all are good. Post and link and we can check.

Thanks Byron.
I bought it from the fish store but just worry if some brands may not be reliable.
I will check the brand again tomorrow.

This evening, I managed to buy Seachem Flourish Trace. Hopefully this one is good.

 

[Byron]

Thanks Byron.
I bought it from the fish store but just worry if some brands may not be reliable.
I will check the brand again tomorrow.

This evening, I managed to buy Seachem Flourish Trace. Hopefully this one is good.

Trace is OK if the macro's are sufficient. I have very soft water with zero GH, so I need the complete Flourish Comprehensive Supplement.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

I checked the brand this morning.
The brand is Ista.
It could be a Taiwanese or Chinese(China) brand.

I found this from the internet but no information provided.

ISTA Water Plant Fertilizer

Features A liquid fertilizer that supplies nutrients and trace elements to ensure water plants are healthy and thriving.Effectively cure symptoms such as dull growth, weak steams, dying leaves and pale veins.Effectively prevent algae growth. Dosage20ml, applies to 100L of water. CautionStore in...

www.freshnmarine.com

I checked Ista website but there is no information on this product.
I only found it from the distributor website.

What are macro nutrients require?
I am still reading on the plants nutrients.

My tap water GH is around 3-5, KH 3-4, pH 7.5.
I guess probably I may have to add the macro like yours.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

A couple caveats about depending on plants to instantly cycle a tank: Many plants take a while to establish themselves and really start growing. During that time, they are using little if any waste. Also, you need to have fairly dense planting, and fairly low stocking, for your plants to do your filtering for you.

I have years of experience (some of it good!) with densely planted, dirt-under-sand, Walstad-style tanks, and I generally don't add fish for several weeks after establishing a new build. Once the plants are growing well, you're good to go.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

A couple caveats about depending on plants to instantly cycle a tank: Many plants take a while to establish themselves and really start growing. During that time, they are using little if any waste. Also, you need to have fairly dense planting, and fairly low stocking, for your plants to do your filtering for you.

I have years of experience (some of it good!) with densely planted, dirt-under-sand, Walstad-style tanks, and I generally don't add fish for several weeks after establishing a new build. Once the plants are growing well, you're good to go.

Thanks for the sharing.
It's a good idea to wait until the plants are growing well.
I will still use a hang on filter just to play safe and in case my plants are not enough.
I am the type of person who is very cautious...LOL

I will also use API Quick Start and Interpret Fast Filter Start for a quicker start of filters and stabilizations of filters.

Actually I can make use of some filter medias from my other tank that have been around for a long time.
But I worry of introducing any parasites that might still be around....so just to be on the safe side...

 

[Byron]

First item, on the Ista fertilizer. They do not say what is actually in it, so I cannot offer much, but it seems to be a basic complete fertilizer. I know what is in Flourish Comprehensive Supplement and why, so it is easy to recommend that, or the two others that are much the same (Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti and The Nutrient Company's TNC Lite [latter may only be available in the UK]. But the Ista might be just as good for all I can tell, so use it.

Second item, on the cycling and filtration. The initial question was cycling with plants, and you need to have some fast growing plants and see that they are obviously growing. I always have floating plants, and they are very fast growers. These handle the ammonia from the cycling. Theree is no need to "cycle" the tank but the bacterial products won't likely harm anything, but I would not use them myself.

Goinbg forward, filtration in a planted tank that is reasonably planted and includes floating plants is only needed to move the water and provide mechanical filtration (removing particulate matter so the water is clear, which is not the same as clean). The fish species determine which filter is best, as water movement affects fish, some need more, some need much less. All filters will do biological filtration but this will be secondary to the plants.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I agree with @Byron. Live plants will help you cycle your tank a lot faster. I always have a big wad of Anancharis when cycling a new tank, as I find it takes a lot less time to finish the cycle.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

First item, on the Ista fertilizer. They do not say what is actually in it, so I cannot offer much, but it seems to be a basic complete fertilizer. I know what is in Flourish Comprehensive Supplement and why, so it is easy to recommend that, or the two others that are much the same (Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti and The Nutrient Company's TNC Lite [latter may only be available in the UK]. But the Ista might be just as good for all I can tell, so use it.

Second item, on the cycling and filtration. The initial question was cycling with plants, and you need to have some fast growing plants and see that they are obviously growing. I always have floating plants, and they are very fast growers. These handle the ammonia from the cycling. Theree is no need to "cycle" the tank but the bacterial products won't likely harm anything, but I would not use them myself.

Goinbg forward, filtration in a planted tank that is reasonably planted and includes floating plants is only needed to move the water and provide mechanical filtration (removing particulate matter so the water is clear, which is not the same as clean). The fish species determine which filter is best, as water movement affects fish, some need more, some need much less. All filters will do biological filtration but this will be secondary to the plants.

Thanks. I understood your explanation.
I will use Ista brand first. But if the results are not good, then I will switch to Seachem or other brands that you mentioned.

My filtrations as you mentioned are to move water. I will have gentle water flow as I will keep shrimps, panda loaches and some small fish.

Thanks again.