White Mouth Growth

[mikev]

Hi,

I'm having a problem with a disease that manifests itself as white mouth growth. It appears to be solid, not fuzzy. and there are no patches on the body, no fin rot, so it is probably not columnaris. The disease is very slow acting and did not kill yet any fish, even after four months (seemingly controlled with a UV), however it started spreading now from the original affected fish (Giant Danios) to others, and the situation looks pretty bad.

I have tried a number of drugs so far, with mostly negative results:
Furan2 (bath) -- appeared to work at the beginning, but the disease reemerged later, and now it is not effective.
Oxytetracycline (food) -- ineffective (Furan and Oxy are generally the best drugs for columnaris...)
Minocycline (bath) -- ineffective
Tetracycline (bath) -- ineffective (but did wipe out the biofilter)
Flubendazole (bath ) -- ineffective (this was tried to cover the case of protozoa as the source)

Trying Erithromycin right now (not much hope on this one, it never worked in the past)

Any suggestion on what would be the reasonable thing to try next?

TIA

 

[WILDER]

How long have you been using these antibiotics as it sounds like to me the fish have built a resisitance up to the meds.
Get you some info as there solution you can dab on the mouth.

http/www.articledepot.co.uk/article-29320.htm

 

[mikev]

How long have you been using these antibiotics as it sounds like to me the fish have built a resisitance up to the meds.
Get you some info as there solution you can dab on the mouth.

http/www.articledepot.co.uk/article-29320.htm

Thanks, Wilder.

I think that I did introduce Furan2 resistance (it was effective at the beginning but then stopped).
The other meds simply did not work at all.

Any idea what else can this be other than the Columnaris?
(Not fuzzy & it is very strange that the disease could be present for 4 months, without killing the fish that clearly has it).

 

[WILDER]

Can you get a pic up.
Have you been using meds for 4 months, as meds will even if not working fully will keep the infection at bay, till you stop the meds then it will start off again.
Its not a growth or lump on the mouth area is it.

 

[mikev]

Can you get a pic up.

Having problems, Giant Danios hard to photograph.

Have you been using meds for 4 months, as meds will even if not working fully will keep the infection at bay, till you stop the meds then it will start off again.

I was not continuously using the meds, just a course then bring the UV up to stop infection spreading. A couple of times it looked like it is cured.

Its not a growth or lump on the mouth area is it.

I'd describe it as a growth or lump, white color. Solid, not fuzzy.

 

[WILDER]

The only other thing then is its a cancer growth and the meds won't work on it sorry.
You could try a vet to see if he can remove it.

 

[mikev]

The only other thing then is its a cancer growth and the meds won't work on it sorry.
You could try a vet to see if he can remove it.

Not cancer, certainly. It is on several fishes, and now spread further, to other fish. And furan2 originally cleared it, but it came back.

Here is how one of them looks like, sorry for the low quality.

 

[WILDER]

Its bacterial red with white.
Can't undertand why the meds are not working.
Have you ever added the tetracycline to the tank, baths are not that good.

Take from lumps and bump on the pandora site.
Wounds that are white on the edges and red in the center are most typically Aeromonas. Those that are red on the edges and white in the center are generally Columnaris. Both are gram negative bacteria. The best treatment for this is any sulfa antibiotic with trimetheprim. This can be put in the water and/or mixed with food -- if you can find Romet B use it.

http/www.fishpalace.org/danscomments.html#Lump

 

[mikev]

Its bacterial red with white.

No red, only white

Can't undertand why the meds are not working.
Have you ever added the tetracycline to the tank, baths are not that good.

Sorry, by bath I meant add to the tank. Full course+2 extra days.

Take from lumps and bump on the pandora site.
Wounds that are white on the edges and red in the center are most typically Aeromonas. Those that are red on the edges and white in the center are generally Columnaris. Both are gram negative bacteria. The best treatment for this is any sulfa antibiotic with trimetheprim. This can be put in the water and/or mixed with food -- if you can find Romet B use it.

http/www.fishpalace.org/danscomments.html#Lump

Thanks Wilder, I'll look into this. But it is all white, no red. This is what makes the darn thing confusing, I don't know what this is. And a chronic external bacterial infection going for months is nuts.

 

[WILDER]

Sorry hate pics they can be so deceiving looks like in the pic there was abit of pink in between the white.

White patches on the head even when bleached out usually is columnaris, but you can never rule out parasites as well.

Its not always easy just have to go on info.
Do your lfs do skin scrapes on fish.

 

[WILDER]

The one with the solid growth on the mouth I would issolate her she dosn't sound good.
Plenty of water changes.
To be honest the fish need skin scrapes to see what going off.
Flukes can cause bacterial infections on top, you won't see them.
Signs of flukes are.
Loosing weight.
Rapid gill movement.
Pale gills with excess mucas on them, or red and inflamed.
Flicking and rubbng, swimming in a jerky movement.
Pale whitish skin.

 

[WILDER]

Mikev I know you had some problems lately with your fish.
I think you need some professional advice from a fish vet to be honest, as I think more than one thing is going off in your tank.

 

[mikev]

Thank you, Wilder,

Not flukes. Flubendazole takes them out reliably, so I covered that (and most other parasites).

Also, no behavior symptoms at all (?!) -- the danios are fat and strong as ever.

More than one problem, most certainly too many, but in different tanks. Everything before was new fish in qtanks, this one unfortunately happened in established tanks and not an infection I brought in..has to be something small, bacteria or protozoa, those can happen spontaneously.

The problem with using a vet is that there is none anywhere close. It seems that in Europe fish vets are common, here there are only two in the entire state and both very far.

All right, let me continue experimenting. I like the idea of heavy dosage of Meth Blue from your link, and in the worst case I have a few more antibiotics on hand,...it just takes long time to try them all.

 

[WILDER]

The problem is I think there just had enough of all the meds.
You can get poisoning from them.
I would run some black carbon and some water changes for now, to give there system a break.

 

[mikev]

The problem is I think there just had enough of all the meds.
You can get poisoning from them.
I would run some black carbon and some water changes for now, to give there system a break.

That has been tried too.

A series of 25% WC's every two days. Supposed to work against columnaris (in fact, rainbow people recommend this as the best), had no effect.