White Cloud Mountain Minnow?

[FlakeyBiscuit3.14]

I am setting up a new tank and was wondering if the White Cloud minnows would be okay. It will be a tropical tank, at about 76-78 degrees. Is that too warm for them? I know that typically they are a cool water fish. I also have water that is fairly high pH (about 7.8).
 
Beyond the question of the conditions they can tolerate, I was wondering about tank mates. I've read some reviews for them that say that they are not very peaceful at all, and that they chase and fin nip other species quite a bit. Is this true? Is it only if they are kept in a small school? I am planning on getting a school of about 8 of the white cloud, but possibly putting a few guppies in the tank (29G) with them.
 
Has anyone had white clouds before? I would really appreciate any advice.
 
Thanks!

 

[fluttermoth]

I would never keep white clouds at tropical temperatures. It significantly shortens their lifespans, which doesn't seem like a responsible thing to do, even though they are a lovely fish and I can understand why you'd want them; my best friend has about 60 in a five foot, unheated tank.
 
They, like many other shoaling fish (zebra danios, neon tetras), can indeed be nippy if in too small a shoal. If you were to get them, eight or ten should be enough to prevent any nipping. I'm not sure I'd take the risk of putting guppies with them though, even without the temperature problem; guppies just seem to be an irresistible target for fin nippers!
 
How long is your tank? You could do a temperate set up, perhaps?

 

[FlakeyBiscuit3.14]

My tank is 30 inches long. Does a temperate set up just mean the cooler temperatures?
 
And thanks for the info, that's kind of what I figured. But the fish specialist at my LFS said that they do okay in a tropical tank as long as it is at the lower end of the tropical spectrum temp wise. I had just been thinking of doing a black sand tank for cories and wanted a bright schooling fish for the mid/top level. The white clouds are just so pretty! I was hoping that they would work.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Here is some information you may find useful on WCMM, from SF,  http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/tanichthys-albonubes/

 

[Paradise3]

I am setting up a new tank and was wondering if the White Cloud minnows would be okay. It will be a tropical tank, at about 76-78 degrees. Is that too warm for them? I know that typically they are a cool water fish. I also have water that is fairly high pH (about 7.8). - I used to keep a group of nine(the one in my picture being one of them) in low end tropical

Mine were at 24c(76f). I had a Chaetostoma formosae(Blonde Rubber Lip Plec) too which also need cooler temperatures but I had a Betta which need tropical temps so I met sort of in the middle and kept them all at 24c. This was in a 30 inch long tank. Those nine WCMM are still alive(I no longer have the tank but they went to my fiancée's 300l with his WCMM) and happily living at 25c now. Breeding, eating and everything.  
 
Beyond the question of the conditions they can tolerate, I was wondering about tank mates. I've read some reviews for them that say that they are not very peaceful at all, and that they chase and fin nip other species quite a bit. Is this true? Is it only if they are kept in a small school? I am planning on getting a school of about 8 of the white cloud, but possibly putting a few guppies in the tank (29G) with them. - Mine never nipped anything in my tank but my Betta was a HMPK(short finned) male so they didn't really have much to nip. They now with with other WCMM, another Betta(again, HMPK but Dumbo too so big pectoral fins), Platies and Siamese Algae Eaters. They haven't nipped anything but they are also in a bigger tank and group. Mine were fine at nine(number of fish) but bigger is better if you can fit it. I would only recommend a maximum of 10 in a 30 inch long tank, they are very active lol. Guppies may get nipped. They have long flowing fins and are slower than mine and my fiancée's  betta's and platies... So they may be nipped if the WCMM are breeding(as they get a bit OTT about that sort of stuff) or just feeling generally nippy.
 
Has anyone had white clouds before? I would really appreciate any advice. - Me

And all my advice is above lol.
 
Thanks! - No problem

 

[FlakeyBiscuit3.14]

After going to a couple more fish stores, I'm thinking that maybe these will not be the best fish for my tank. The couple fish stores that keep them in tanks at 78F they have dull colors and are not as active... Even though this may be to other water quality issues and not just the temperature, I don't know if I want to risk it.

 

[Paradise3]

After going to a couple more fish stores, I'm thinking that maybe these will not be the best fish for my tank. The couple fish stores that keep them in tanks at 78F they have dull colors and are not as active... Even though this may be to other water quality issues and not just the temperature, I don't know if I want to risk it.

 
My guess is that is due to water quality and the fact that they are in a shop and not settled in a tank. Mine were the brightest I've seen at 24c(76f) but that is just my experience. It is entirely up to you what you want to do. Mine were active too and readily breeding at 76f.

 

[FlakeyBiscuit3.14]

Mine were the brightest I've seen at 24c(76f) but that is just my experience. It is entirely up to you what you want to do. Mine were active too and readily breeding at 76f.

Really? They are so beautiful and I feel like they would be a perfect fit for my new tank, except for that temp issue... But I AM planning on keeping it at 76F....

Well, I really appreciate your input and I may give them a chance after all. I still have quite of bit of time to consider, as I'm getting my new tank this Wednesday and then I still have to wait for it to cycle lol

I guess I was just hoping for more replies with people who have actually kept them before. I am assuming the two replies above you hadn't kept them personally...  And while that SeriouslyFish resource that Ch4rlie suggested is fantastic, I feel like nothing can substitute actual fish keeping experience.

 

[Paradise3]

These are what mine looked like. Bad pictures with flash unfortunately as they were too active for good pictures
 

Note the pink tinge to the gold stripe, that was actually there... Not just the lighting. I also had a male with gold tips to his fins instead of white. Now nicknamed "goldy" in his new home with my fiancée lol.
 
As for whether Fluttermoth and Ch4lie have kept them before, I'm not sure Everyone has different experience with them. Mine is that despite what everyone says, they can and do tolerate up to at least 25c(78f) very well and will readily breed happily in it

 

[fluttermoth]

Yeah, I haven't kept them, but it's my best friend that has them (we've been friends for over 30 years!), so it is personal experience

I see hers at least twice a month, when I'm visiting, and have done for the ten years she's been keeping them. I often help her catch out the ones she wants to spawn, as I'm a better catcher than she is

They do come with either yellow or white tips to the dorsal fin. My friend tries to keep the strains separate, but they will keep on spawning and producing fry in the main tanks, lol!

 

[FlakeyBiscuit3.14]

Yeah, I haven't kept them, but it's my best friend that has them (we've been friends for over 30 years!), so it is personal experience

I see hers at least twice a month, when I'm visiting, and have done for the ten years she's been keeping them. I often help her catch out the ones she wants to spawn, as I'm a better catcher than she is

They do come with either yellow or white tips to the dorsal fin. My friend tries to keep the strains separate, but they will keep on spawning and producing fry in the main tanks, lol!

Oh, okay. Do you happen to know what temp your friend keeps them at? Or if she's ever tried keeping them at low-end tropical temps?

 

[nortonmad213]

id love to hear if this works as i saw some gold wcmm in town the other day and they certainly have caught my eye

 

[fluttermoth]

Oh, okay. Do you happen to know what temp your friend keeps them at? Or if she's ever tried keeping them at low-end tropical temps?

They've always been in unheated tanks; they went down as low as 8°C a couple of winters ago! Summer temps average about 22/23°C, winter is usually around 10 or 12°C.

 

[Paradise3]

They do come with either yellow or white tips to the dorsal fin. My friend tries to keep the strains separate, but they will keep on spawning and producing fry in the main tanks, lol!

 
This wasn't just on the dorsal fin though, this was all his fins - Tail included  

 

[fluttermoth]

Yeah, I meant the tips on all the fins 

 They're certainly a rarer strain than the white tipped ones, and a gold x white spawn seems to throw all white tipped fry.
 
OP; I agree with Paradise about the shop fish being stressed as a reason for their poor colour, and as hers are obviously fine at lower tropical temps,  I'm happy to bow to her practical knowledge As I said, my friend has never kept hers with a heater, so we don't have any experience to draw on.