When/How to use Tetra Safe Start for Fishless Cycle?

[WestCoastChelle]

So I got my tank all set up. Weights in there now, holding down the driftwood til it gets waterlogged. Got a few plants. It's been running 24h, up to temperature, everything's looking good. Now I want to start it cycling properly.

I read the fishless cycle post which is what I'm used to doing. But I wanted to use Tetra Safe Start to help get a lil jump on things. My question is, when do I add it? I'll be dosing up to 3ppm of Ammonia today. Do I add the TSS then?

Everything I read on TSS use from official sources say it's safe for fish right away, which I know isn't true. But I haven't been able to find much info on a fishless cycle using a lil boost.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Tetra Safe Start+ and Safe Start are decent products, They are very similar to Dr. Tim's One and Only. Dr. Timothy Hovanec is the individual most responsible for identifying the strains of bacteria which execute the cycle in tanks. He and other's, including the parent company of Tetra, share several patents which make it difficult for competitors to use the Nitrospira.

Tetras used to have better instructions for how to use it's product, but thank corporate mindset for fixing that. So what I suggest you do is to head over to Dr. Tim's site and his instructions for cycling fishlessly using his One and Only.

https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library/quick-guide-to-fishless-cycling-with-one-and-only/

Using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Bacteria​

The best and easiest way to fishless cycle is to combine adding the ammonium chloride with our Live Nitrifying bacteria. When used in combination, these will cycle the tank in less than one week. Again, do not add too much ammonia. We make it easy by providing a bottle of reagent grade ammonium chloride that is at a concentration such that adding 4 drops of solution to 1 gallon of aquarium water will result in an ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 mg/L (ppm)

2 mg/l = 2 ppm. But Dr tim uses the nitrogen scale why moist of out hobby test kits use the Total Ion Scale. These can be converted to each other like miles and kilometers/ So Dr. Tim's 2 mg/l will work out to about 2.5 ppm when it comes to ammonia.

If you cannot get his ammonium chloride then look for Fritz's Fishless Fuel which is also ammonium chloride.

The thing to understand about using bacteria to jump start a cycle is why it works as wellas it should. the bottle contains both athe ammonia and the nitrite bacteria. Further, it contains them in a proper mix such that whatever nitrite the ammonia bacteria can create, the nitrite ones can convert to nitrate. However when we add ammonia we are putting in a lot more all at once than gets create in a tank. This immediately gets the ammonia bacteria reproducing to handle the excess ammonia. So there will soon be not only ammonia readings in a tank, there will shortly be nitrite ones as the nitrite bacteria reproduc more slowly than the ammonia ones.

What this means is you will see both ammonia and nitrite levels when you test. But they will be lower and last for much less time than if you were doing the cycle without adding the bacteria.

 

[WestCoastChelle]

Thank you so much! Yeah I wanted to get my hands on Tims but couldn't find anywhere locally that sold it and was wary of ordering online. For ammonia I just have so pure household (unscented) ammonia I was intending to use. That's what I'd always used.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello. I add the bacteria starter when I perform a water change. Just dose according to the instructions. API's "Quick Start" is what I use. But, any of the starters should work. You could instantly cycle the new tank by getting some bottom material from your local fish store. Most have no problem with this if you pick up a couple of inexpensive things while you're there.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

 

[connorlindeman]

If you have live plants, do not add ammonia. Ammonia can be toxic to live plants. Just let the tank silent cycle.

 

[WestCoastChelle]

Hello. I add the bacteria starter when I perform a water change. Just dose according to the instructions. API's "Quick Start" is what I use. But, any of the starters should work. You could instantly cycle the new tank by getting some bottom material from your local fish store. Most have no problem with this if you pick up a couple of inexpensive things while you're there.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

I tried asking two local stores and both said no

If you have live plants, do not add ammonia. Ammonia can be toxic to live plants. Just let the tank silent cycle.

I've heard mixed things on this. Some forums I've read say plants help speed it up. Other say like you. I will say as much as I love this hobby the amount of conflicting information out there is so frustrating!

 

[Byron]

In 30 years of keeping multiple aquaria I have never "cycled" one. I always had plants, including some floaters, even back when I did not understand how this worked. But it does. No risk, no waiting for nitrite then nitrate. And much, much safer for the fish later because you are not adding ammonia.

The process is simple. Aquatic plants take up ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen. Recognize though that this is ammonia/ammonium that is natural, produced by fish, bacteria, decomposition of organics, or whatever. Adding artificial ammonia can be done, but it is risky, as some plants will be harmed with just 1 ppm ammonia. But even more, it is completely unnecessary. Once I see the floating plants are growing, in go the fish. I have never had ammonia or nitrite in any tanks, and my nitrate has been in the 0-5ppm range.

You just need some fast growing plants (slow growers help too, but not as voraciously!) Give them a good feed (a new tank obviously has very little in the way of nutrients occurring) with the appropriate fertilizer, and when the fast-growers show growth is occurring, you are ready to add fish.

On the misleading information...we can thank the internet for this. Any half-wit with money can set up a web site and be "expert," and many people (wrongly) assume that these people must know the subject. Sadly, many do not. Over the years I have discovered reliable sites, and it is to those that I go for information. And of course to good forums like TFF.

 

[WestCoastChelle]

Yeah but even on good forums you'll have people disagreeing about the best way to do things. In some cases I think it's really just, there isn't one right way to do things, several different approaches are valid.

Went ahead and dosed with ammonia as that's how I've always done it, and if I lose some plants, well, I lose some plants. Better plants than fish. Added the TSS+ per the instructions linked above. Decided to start a journal thread to keep a record of how things go.

 

[Byron]

Yeah but even on good forums you'll have people disagreeing about the best way to do things. In some cases I think it's really just, there isn't one right way to do things, several different approaches are valid.

Went ahead and dosed with ammonia as that's how I've always done it, and if I lose some plants, well, I lose some plants. Better plants than fish. Added the TSS+ per the instructions linked above. Decided to start a journal thread to keep a record of how things go.

Don't confuse methods with instructions. Some here do the silent cycle with plants, some add ammonia, and some will do it with fish. The latter is not kind to the fish, but it is still a method. I just prefer the easy and much safer method.

 

[WestCoastChelle]

Don't confuse methods with instructions. Some here do the silent cycle with plants, some add ammonia, and some will do it with fish. The latter is not kind to the fish, but it is still a method. I just prefer the easy and much safer method.

Yeah, my very first tank I knew nothing about the nitrogen cycle and did fish-in. I won't do that again. Learned a lot since then. Still sad neither Mr Pets nor Petsmart would give me some gravel or filter medium but ahh well. Working with what I got.

 

[Byron]

Yeah, my very first tank I knew nothing about the nitrogen cycle and did fish-in. I won't do that again. Learned a lot since then. Still sad neither Mr Pets nor Petsmart would give me some gravel or filter medium but ahh well. Working with what I got.

You are lucky they wouldn't. Never use anything like this from any fish store, or anyone else's tank for that matter. I have known some aquarists that will not even move things from one of their own aquaria to another of their own. That is sometimes very wise, but I've done it often. But then I know I do not have fish disease/problems in any tanks so I feel safe. We quarantine new fish and wisely so, for the same reason...pathogens moving with the wet gravel or filter media or whatever.

I commented in another thread earlier today that the only time I introduced serious threatening disease into my tanks was with fish acquired from chain stores, namely Petsmart, Petland and MrPets. After I worked out what was happening, I never darkened their doors again.

 

[WestCoastChelle]

This is what I mean by conflicting information even in forums such as these. Even in this thread it was recommended to get a seed starter in the forum of gravel or filter medium from a store.

So like I said, lots of information, people with strong, different opinions. We all just out here doing our best

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Come on folks. we all need to pay attention to the posts before we answer. I know now and then when I fail to do this, I give poor advice.

So, go back and read the very 1st line of the very first post where it was stated: "Got a few plants."

A few plants is a lot different than a planted tank. it is almost impossible to do a silent cycle with a few plants.

And I do not care what bacteria anybody used but if it is not one of the two mentioned, it does not contain the bacteria that will be keeping your tank cycled in the long run. But every manufacturer has to have a product to compete, and most of them do, What they lack is the science and the patent that support what they are selling. They will not tell you exactly what is in their bottle because it is not the "right stuff." here is what Tetra states is in Safe Start: "INGREDIENTS: Purified water, Proprietary strains of: Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira and Nitrospira."

Finally, while it is true that some aquatic plants are sensitive to ammonia as NH3, the amount used here should either be 2 or 2.5 ppm. Given the prersence of the bottled bacteris of the proper kind a chunk of the ammonia will be consumled by them fair fast, so it is doubtful it will harm the plants. And then most of us who do just a few plants usually het the easier ones and they are generally the least at risk from ammonia levels we are discussing here.

Most of the research into almost anything to do with raising fish in captivity is done for the benefit of aquaculture not the fish hobby. We have to benefit from that research for the most part. Dr. Hovanec did his research because he had kept fish for many years before he got his Ph.D So it was no surprise his thesis dealt with the nitrifying bacteria in our tanks.

To date I have probably cycled well over 100 tanks. My first tank I cycled with fish. AFterwards it occured to me that one should be able to do it using ammonia instead. I thought I was a genius until I found out this was being done in the hobby at least 7+ years earlier. My first tanks were cycled witrh regular household ammonia. It took me a while to discover ammonium chloride.

 

[WestCoastChelle]

THANK YOU.