What Should I Be Doing?

[plecostomus-mad]

Ok so im confused!

alot of people on this forum are VERY helpful, and thank you in advance to those who have helped me so far.

now, my dad says that water changes are going to stress and maybe even kill my fish. my local lfs says a similar thing, but mainly that anything over a 25% water change is unnecessary as it causes too much stress. one person on this forum thinks i may have OCD or wanted me to read the link so i dont become obsessive.......and i can kinda see where he is coming from. but i dont think its a bad thing to '' love '' your fish so much as you want to care for them, give them the best quality of life by making sure the water conditions and quality are as they should be.

so where does this lead me to? confusion!

my dad, as an example, bought a 6ft tank years ago, filled it with water, dechlorinated it and stuck fish in there. now these fish had no problems as such. occasional white spot, few died after 2 years but mainly all was well.
he probably changed 40% of the water every 4-6 months.this i would say was not often enough but you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

im really confused at the moment. not enough to give up on the idea that i could and will look after fish, but more so to the advise im receiving. i will admit, when im advised to change 75%-90% of the water, i did think,huh?? but thought they should know best and went with it. im not saying this advise was bad or not founded.

so at what point does this hobby get too serious? i was always a believer that aquariums stocked with fish that you like are calming and helps with stress? all i have learnt so far is that its bloody stressful and im constantly worried about my fish because im getting mixed advise. if the ammonia is too high i might kill them etc etc, if i change the water too much i might kill them.

is there anyone in the forum with an honors in fish keeping?

i want to hear everyones view on this. im not trying to upset or offend anyone with what i have said.......and i am very grateful for ALL the help i have already received.

im just very stuck in what i should be doing!!!!!!!!

 

[OldMan47]

I am also a very old dog but have learned a few tricks. In the days when I first started to keep fish, we never changed much water because we knew it killed fish. If a person started doing big water changes on a tank that had been running for years, all of his fish died. Point proven in our minds. Now I understand that when I do not change water in a tank for years at a time the water gets a very high concentration of minerals in it. Because it happens gradually, the fish constantly adapt to the higher and higher mineral content. When you then turn around and do a large water change, you remove the high mineral content that the fish are accustomed to and they start dieing from the stress of the change. Now turn things around. We also lost many of the new fish that we brought home in those days and it is not too surprising. The new fish were not accustomed to the high mineral content of our tanks and died quite often. We called that poor quality fish, too much inbreeding and similar things.
Today we change water quite often and are not afraid to do truly large water changes. Our fish never are asked to become accustomed to the high mineral content water and they thrive with frequent large water changes that replace the tank water with new water of similar characteristics to the old water. This means that a huge, 90% or more, water change does not stress the fish because they are accustomed to clean fresh water. When I bring new fish home, I never seem to lose any. The water that they come from, at the LFS, is changed just as often as the water in my tank because they keep sending some home with each fish purchase and need to refill the system daily. I no longer get nearly as many poor quality and inbred fish that die right away as I once did because I have water that the fish are comfortable living with. If I get a sudden build of ammonia or nitrite because of an inadequately cycled filter, I do a 90% or larger water change and never worry about it. The fish always look better after the change than before it.

 

[Curiosity101]

Oldman is spot on. (Seriously OM what a perfect explanation! you certainly earnt you mod title)

The only thing that I would add is that your weekly change should be at least 10% and 30% is quite acceptable. (I do 20-30% a week myself), and if I have to leave it for a fortnight then I do a 50% change. Haven't had a single loss... And fish tend to brighten up after changes.

Infact on following the forum you'll find alot of fish spawn straight after water changes.

Many plecs imparticular are triggered to spawn by a large influx of cool water (18degrees ish), I know plec breeders that do what is practically a 100% water change when they want them to spawn. And they haven't lost a single fish yet (due to the theory oldman explained)

 

[plecostomus-mad]

very well explained, but do the water changes stress the fish out? my dad seems to think so and maybe some other forum members. i only want whats best for my fish. i plan on buying plecos when my tank is ready to accept them, my brother nearly went out and bought me 2 clown plecos until i stopped him, he actually felt offended and thought i wasl ying about th tank cycle etc until i showed him this forum, he was like, what? that cant be, surely?? he almost spent 40 quid on a pair of chocolate plecos for my b'day but i was with him and i said that was too much for starter fish.lol


so what should i be doing? what is a safe zone for changing water etc? if i ran a bigger filter, would that help? are there any fish friendly additives that i can use to lower ammonia etc?

 

[Curiosity101]

Hey, did you post pre or post my reply?

I thought all your questions had been covered..but here goes.

Changes only stress fish if the conditions in the tank are significantly different to your tap water. With regular water changes (20-30% weekly), your fish will never get stressed due to a water change. They will simply enjoy the influx of fresh water. See my first post... so many fish spawn just after a water change is done, and some plecs actually need 100% changes with cool water to induce spawning (it replicates the 'rains arriving' in the wild where they come from, the rains flood the rivers and cool them down a few degrees)

You should be doing from 10-30% a week. The upper end of 30% is probably best.

So long as you do regularly changes, you can do up to a 100% change with little to no ill effect. Just make sure you match the water temps roughly aswell.

Bigger filter only helps if you have a higher bioload. As the filter rated for your tank may not have enough surface area to grow enough bacteria to support all the waste created.

The only additive I've seen that is recommended is seachem prime, use it as your water conditioner. But you shouldn't need any products in a stable cycled tank.
The only thing you should need to keep fish healthy are regular water changes.

 

[OldMan47]

Just to build a bit on what Curiosity said, if you take care of the water quality and feed regularly, the fish will pretty much take care of themselves and will prosper. The only way that I have seen fish stressed by a water change is if I get carried away and pour the whole bucket of water right onto the fish. They really don't seem to like being bounced around by the fresh water very much. Instead I set up a bucket and let it just run through my siphon into the tank like this.

 

[plecostomus-mad]

Hey, did you post pre or post my reply?

i posted just before you did i think.

Just to build a bit on what Curiosity said, if you take care of the water quality and feed regularly, the fish will pretty much take care of themselves and will prosper. The only way that I have seen fish stressed by a water change is if I get carried away and pour the whole bucket of water right onto the fish. They really don't seem to like being bounced around by the fresh water very much. Instead I set up a bucket and let it just run through my siphon into the tank like this.

thats exactly how i do it except that i place a stool on the table my tank is on

I thought all your questions had been covered..but here goes.

i just wanted to make sure, sometimes i need to ask the same thing without even realizing im doing it,sorry and thanks for the detailed response all questions are answered, i think.lol,

 

[plecostomus-mad]

You should be doing from 10-30% a week. The upper end of 30% is probably best.

So long as you do regularly changes, you can do up to a 100% change with little to no ill effect. Just make sure you match the water temps roughly aswell.

ive been keeping a log in the tropical general discussion board.i hav a fellow member who overlooks my tests and lets me know what to do, so thanks to featheredminnow! it seems that if ammonia levels are high etc, do a water change. i have noticed this works and i will continue to do this. i usally do a 25% water change, if i get a spike i wll do more, just like today. im keeping up with water changes and dont see them as a chore because the welfare of my fish are at stake.......... no matter how in-expensive black neon tetras are!

i can ussaly match the temp spot on, the temp rises slightly from 79f-81f, so im quite confident

 

[fatheadminnow]

One thing that plecostomus-mad did not mention was that he is in a Fish-in cycle, according to his other thread.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/312369-water-test-log/page__pid__2588245__st__20&#entry2588245

But as you can see, plecostomus-mad, the large water changes are not going to stress your fish as much as your 1 ppm of ammonia you had in your tank this morning. Now, after several large water changes, you can see your ammonia level has dropped and the fish are doing better.

-FHM

 

[plecostomus-mad]

One thing that plecostomus-mad did not mention was that he is in a Fish-in cycle, according to his other thread.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/312369-water-test-log/page__pid__2588245__st__20&#entry2588245

But as you can see, plecostomus-mad, the large water changes are not going to stress your fish as much as your 1 ppm of ammonia you had in your tank this morning. Now, after several large water changes, you can see your ammonia level has dropped and the fish are doing better.

-FHM

i should have mentioned the fish in cycle, sorry if it confused things.

and yup, without your help it probably would have been alot higher by now, causing major damage to my fish.and they are rather happy

in my water test log, there is a discussion about OCD of all things, The Other Lebowski seems to think i have OCD because i want to care for my fish, by water changes, water testing etc.lol

 

[OldMan47]

Do not be too concerned about the advice of people who just quote what they have read. Often the underlying theories are not well understood and the advice is never changed to match circumstances. I have seen posts on other forums that were poorly thought out. Even around here we sometimes see such advice given but it is not quite as common as it is on some sites. Those folks who have had success in some particular manner, do not really understand it and give very straight and unwavering advice. Do it my way or fail is the essence of their message. I really hope that some of us do not come across that way. It is my belief, completely unsupported as most beliefs are, that by customizing an answer to suit the circumstances, we actually offer better advice than the person who only has a canned answer to each concern or problem. There are really no best answers to each question and there is far more than one good answer to each question in fishkeeping. We each rely on our own experiences to guide us through the problems that we encounter.

 

[drobbyb]

Some real good advice in this thread. Sure doing waterchanges puts a little stress on the fish, but they are quite capable of dealing with it. My fish quite enjoy the fresh water (even to the point of swimming against the current as I fill the tank.) My rainbows always spawn after a waterchange and sometimes while the tank is filling. So this leads me to the conclusion that waterchanges are obviously a good thing. I change 50% every week. I haven't lost any fish yet due to changing the water.

 

[waterdrop]

Like oldman I'm an aquarist who had lots of experiences in the late 50's, 60s and 70s but have learned new tricks. Back then we didn't have the understandings we do now about water changes and we didn't understand the nitrogen cycle at all for the most part. With the new things we learned in the hobby now, I know that in my case my fish are now more or less constantly vibrant and healthy. Its a huge change!

~~waterdrop~~