What Do I Need? [warning: Long Post]

[lukestanislaus]

Hi guys I'm new to this great forum but I've had a fish tank at a few points since I was 5 or so, including tropical fish, but nothing too fancy, mostly cared for by my father. I have never heard of cycling (But I'm learning ) before so that might give you an idea of my lack of experiance.

I decided I'd like to get back into it but this time actually do the research and mix fish properly. In the past I had no idea about which fish work with other species etc so I'm trying to figure it out.

I got a box of spare equipment from a friend so what I have now includes:
Tank: ~90L / ~23gallon (L=78cm H=38cm W=30cm)
Light: 70cm flourencent light (Sory don't know the wattage)
Heater: ~30cm long rod heater, 240v 100w

Filter: "Under gravel filter" that does not appear to have a power point or anything, all it appears to be is a bunch of plastic white grates that connect together (Which I assume I am supposed to put gravel on top of), there are two plactic hollow tubes coming up from the grates that have an aerator tube running up though them. Do I use an aerator to power this or something (I don't have an aerator at this point)? I don't know how this works, my friend just told me it was a filter

I also have a filter which I know for a fact generates quite a strong current underwater. It has a few specs listed on it which I dont understand so I'll repeat them

Liquid filter 230v, 8.5W
520L/h Hmin .85m

It has a sponge inside and sucks water up through the sponge and expels it through a small hole at the top

Is this suitable or big enough for my tank and how should I position it, if not what kind of filter should I be buying?

Also most of the equipment is pretty dusty, any special method I should use to clean it (and the gravel)?

FISH:
There are a few fish that I would very much like to include in my tank so I wonder if my filter or other equipment needs to cater for these fish, I don't NEED these fish, I'm just especially interested in these. These are the notes I have on the species from a little net research so please correct me if I'm wrong

Neon Tetras 20-25°C
1-4cm, hardy, peaceful, keep in groups of 6 or more

I am attracted to these because I've always liked them and I know they look nice in the tank

Khuli/Coolie loaches (24-30°C
~3inch long ground dwellers, very peaceful and shy, bottomdweller, needs daytime shelter, prefers peaceful fish of similar size, reasonably hardy, doesnt take up much space

I love the look of them and they seem to be reasonably easy to keep too

Angelfish 22-30°C
15cm peaceful when not breeding, very hardy

I would like only one or two of these, I just think they look cool in other people's community tanks

Clown Loaches 24-30°C
25cm adult, buy at 5cm+, peaceful fish, need 3 or more cos they shoal, prefer a current, eat snails, like diverse food

I like these but I'm a little concerned by the adult size, I'm thinking my tank probably isn't big enough to house them as they grow (Or even now?)? Is it easy to sell them back to a dealer or should I just not bother with these?

Any other fish ratios/reccomendations or any advice at all would be appreciated

I've got some photos of the stuff that I have in case my descriptions aren't good enough
Tank: http/img50.imageshack.us/img50/7853/p1000466ia3.jpg
Tank with Heater and Filter in foreground: http/img251.imageshack.us/img251/3375/p1000468lz0.jpg
Gravel filter: http/img95.imageshack.us/img95/5872/p1000469jg9.jpg



I realise I've typed waaay too much but any assistance would be much appreciated

Thanks

 

[BigC]

All those plates connect together and the two uplift tubes will be positioned in the back corners of the tank. Airlines are then pushed down into the top if the tubes and an airstone is connected to the end at the bottom of the tube. The two airlines that come out from the tube are connected to a standard double gang valve for you to regulate the flow next you connect an airpump with a simple no return valve between the gang valve and the pump. The plates are covered with gravel and once filled with water you switch on the pump. the bubbles comming out of the tubes form a kind of suction which draws dertius matter down through the gravel and into the plates which is them broken down by bacteria. These filters are now kind of old hat and it would be advisable to purchase either an internal or external power filter to suit the size of tank. It would advise you to purchase a new heater whilst doing this again to suit you size of tank.
Regards
Bigc

 

[Tolak]

I realise I've typed waaay too much but any assistance would be much appreciated

More info is always better. The undergravel filter has been covered, that internal power filter should be fine for that tank. Ugf systems are filthy to deal with, the tank needs to be torn down once a year & the plates need to be pulled out. The filth that collects under the plates ends up looking like a mud puddle, not a clean situation at all. You may want to look into an external filter as an alternative.

If the equipment is just dusty, rinsing with plain tap water works well. If there is any lime buildup white vinegar removes lime, rinse with tap water afterwards. The gravel can be rinsed in a colandar, or you can put it in a bucket and fill the bucket with water. Get a cheap plastuic cup & punch or drill a couple dozen holes in the bottom. Use the cup to take the gravel out of the bucket, the water flowing through will rinse the gravel.

Used heaters are a gamble, if they fail they either don't work, or don't shut off. Either one is a disaster. I would get a new one, keeping the old one for emergency use if it works.

Neons will work in that tank, as will khulis. That tank is too short for angels, the need a minimum of 16" of water depth. Once you add gravel you will have less than 13". They also tend to have a taste for neons, some folks get angels & neons to work together, usually in a larger tank. Clown loachs will get too big for that tank.

Look into some of the dwarf cichlids such as apistos or rams as an alternative to angels. They will get along fine with the neons & khulis, and make a nice centerpiece fish. Some corys will work as an alternative to the loachs, They are a smaller bottom dwelling cat with many variations. That tank has a good size footprint and should be workable with the kuhlis & corys on the bottom. I would wait a bit until the tank matures until you add the neons, they do better in an established tank.

Check out http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=73365 for how to do a fishless cycle. This will prevent needless harm to your fish.

Thank you for posting so much info, along with the pic links, it makes things so much easier!

 

[lukestanislaus]

I realise I've typed waaay too much but any assistance would be much appreciated

More info is always better.
Thank you for posting so much info, along with the pic links, it makes things so much easier!

Thank YOU for so much info! VV helpful

You would reccomend these other fish that I had on my fish candidate list then?:

Bronze Corydoras 22-26°C
7cm peacful community fish, schooling fish, 4 is reccomended, quite easy to keep

Bolivian Ram 24-27°C
8cm peaceful and shy, territorial

EDIT: Just did a bit more looking around and I found two fish that appeal to me
Pearl Gourami and Croaking Gourami both seem to be good solid fish would these work well


What I'm looking for small fish that aren't going to grow too large so I guess I'll scrap the clown loaches and angelfish, I would love variety and fish activity but I also want to avoid overely messy fish, fish that are aggressive etc. Maybe I'm wishing for too much . Obviously I don't want an overpopulated or messy tank

Also I have heard that it is best to get different fish to inhabit each layer of the water strata and this makes sense to me, I would assume it better distributes the water space and also makes it more aethetically pleasing
Anyway so if the kuhli and corys are going to be hanging around the bottom which fish are good middle to higher layer fish? I read that Tiger Barbs are good but you need 6-7+ or they get very aggro, I know the tetras should be middle layer right(How many is a good amount of tetras for my tank anyway?)? Any idea's for a nice centerpeice fish to swim in the middle area that would fit in well (I was hoping an angelfish would fill that role )?

Also! PLANTS?! I would love suggestions about species of plants and how heavily vegetated the tank should be, any advice about positioning etc would be great too
Again thank you

 

[Tolak]

The bronze corys would work well, you may want to consider the albino variety, depending on the color of the gravel. They are both aeneus corys, a hardy fish that comes in many color variations.

The rams would work as well, a nice small community cichlid. The neons are tetras, and would inhabit mostly the middle layer, which you are correct in understanding the role layers play in stocking a tank. The layers do overlap to some extent, the corys will come up off of the bottom, the rams & neons will go down towards the bottom from time to time.

Tiger barbs would be a little too aggressive for the rams in that size tank. Angels grow too tall, they need a taller tank. I won't be much help with live plants, most of my tanks have no substrate, being focused around breeding. The few plants I have are silk or plastic.

Do me a favor & fill out your profile when you get a chance. The important ones are location, as this determines medication availability, something needed if you ever have a problem. Once the tank is running add that to your profile as well, tank occupants and tank size help with diagnosing a problem. These things are often and understandably forgotten if a problem arises, the availability of this info helps with a swift diagnosis should trouble occur.

 

[lukestanislaus]

Great thanks

Should I set up plants before I put fish in? And how should I add the fish. Tetras need to be added later I know so which ones should go in first/together?

Are any Gouramis suited to this size tank and other fish? I looked around and Pearl Gourami and Croaking Gourami appealed to me

 

[Jozlyn]

Neon's actually aren't very "tough" - their water parameters are pretty narrow, as far as temperature, Ph and Kh go. I'd make sure you do some research on all the fish water statistics on the fish you're interested in before you buy any. I have already made this mistake and am now trying to keep a happy medium for everyone, but unfortunately the Neon's are out of the range of everyone else, so while they're ok, they wont live a full life

These days before I buy a fish I look at, what their full adult size will be (most of the fish you buy will be young and not at their final size), Ph, Kh, Temperature and salinity.

Also, don't forget to get yourself a good test kit, you should be able to buy a "pack" that contains the full range of test kits that you need, Ph, Kh, Amonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, etc. For around AU$50 or maybe less, I live in the country so everything is more expensive here.

You'll also need a bottle of water conditioner.

There's some fantastic pinned topics on here about cycling your tank as well as on planting, take some time to read some of them, you'll be really glad you did, you'll learn soooooo much

Good luck

 

[lukestanislaus]

Hmm interesting about the neons, what other small schooling fish would you suggest as being a better alternative? I've heard zebra danios are tough as nails. I have also looked at other tetra species (red nose, black, green) as well as white clouds. What would you suggest as being a fish that will adapt well, as well as exhibiting similar size and shape of tetras.

I'm thinking 24-26C will be the temp I'll be maintaining the tank

I'm using this tool: http/www.thinkfish.co.uk/community.html to test fish combinations, what do you guys think of it's usefulness?

I went to my local fish dealer today and he showed me a fish 'pakistani loach' which looked pretty cool and active, the guy says they only grow to 4 inches or so and are quite peaceful and a good tank cleaner. What do you guys think about this species?


I bought a new heater (200W Tetratec) which apparently will last for ages and better heat the tank. I also looked at an 'external canister filter' which was a large unit, I'll probably pick it up later this week as well as the proper materials to stat cycling my tank so I think I beginning to be pretty set as far as hardsware goes seeing as I already have a light

 

[fenwoman]

Hmm interesting about the neons, what other small schooling fish would you suggest as being a better alternative? I've heard zebra danios are tough as nails. I have also looked at other tetra species (red nose, black, green) as well as white clouds. What would you suggest as being a fish that will adapt well, as well as exhibiting similar size and shape of tetras.

I'm thinking 24-26C will be the temp I'll be maintaining the tank

I'm using this tool: http/www.thinkfish.co.uk/community.html to test fish combinations, what do you guys think of it's usefulness?

I went to my local fish dealer today and he showed me a fish 'pakistani loach' which looked pretty cool and active, the guy says they only grow to 4 inches or so and are quite peaceful and a good tank cleaner. What do you guys think about this species?


I bought a new heater (200W Tetratec) which apparently will last for ages and better heat the tank. I also looked at an 'external canister filter' which was a large unit, I'll probably pick it up later this week as well as the proper materials to stat cycling my tank so I think I beginning to be pretty set as far as hardsware goes seeing as I already have a light

I think that the much overlooked white cloud mountain minnows are lovely as a small shoal and they are hardy too. I keep pearl gourami and love the way that they sort of feel their way about with their feelers. Try to get a pair. I have 2 males and one is a swine and has caused the death of some of my fish this week. If nobody wants him, he will be going to the great tank in the sky.
I'm sure you will get it all looking lovely. I like a heavily planted tank as I find it nice watching the fish weave in and out of the plants. I also don't like normal gravel. I have part gravel at the back and playsand at the front to make it look like a river bed.
In my next tank I plan to use black slate chippings. all my substrate came from a builders merchant where it is cheap and there is mroe selection. The slate chippings for example come in different colours, not vivid in your eye, give you a headache colours, but sunbtle and natural greens, black, brown, pale yellow etc.
Get a background for outside on the back of the tank too as it gives it some depth instead of looking right through to the wall behind.
You could also add some shrimp as a point of interest and to scavenge any food on the bottom.
As well as a test kit, I highly recommend you get a basic first aid kit of med's for ich, finrot etc. All of us have panics upon spotting ich or something in the tank on a saturday evening, knowing we cannot get any meds until Monday.
Tell family and friends that birthday and christmas gifts should include vouchers from your lfs
That way once you have the basic set up, you can go and buy extras, ornaments, plants etc. Also buy a selection of food. I have flakes, pellets, micro pellets and algae wafers for my algae eating sucky loaches. I also like to give a daily feed of live or froxen food like daphnia, bloodworms etc.

 

[lukestanislaus]

Thanks for the reply Are shrimp easy/cheap to buy, wouldn't the fish try to eat them? Also I was wondering about adding snails, any particular species that would work well? I read that 'Malayan snails' are good

The man at the shop reccomended this filter, what do you guys think, is this a good filter for me? The guy basically said you can never have too big of a filter and I read some positive reviews for this product

 

[Tolak]

Eheim makes some of the best filters out there, I have several running. That would be an excellent filter, and you really can't overfilter a tank. The thing you do need to watch is water flow/turbulance, which some fish like but others don't. Canister filters are the easiest filters to deal with in regards to water flow, you have many options.

Online calculators can't be totally trusted, many of them will overstock your tank, or tell you that incompatable fish are ok. The collective experiences of members on a site like this beats any calculator. They are ok for planning, but by no means a final answer.

 

[n3ont3tra]

Okay, I don't think you've gotten an answer about plants yet. If you really want to get serious about plants, you'll have to get better lighting. The lighting you have now is probably 20 watts, which gives you a little less than 1watt pet gallon (wpg) That is fine for low light plants, such as amazon swords, anarcharis, cryps, java moss, anubias, and a bunch of others. Here is some info about many common plants. If you want some plants that need higher light, you'll also need CO2. If you have any lighting over 2 wpg, you'll need CO2. Otherwise you are guaranteed to get algae. Also, in the beginning, you'll want to have as many stem plants as possible, ideally at least 80% of the substrate is covered. That helps prevent early algae problems. Once they've been growing for about a week, you can slowly replace them with the desired plants. I'm a little short on time right now, but I think I've given you a decent overview about plants. For further questions, I suggest reading the pinned topics in the planted forum. Also, the people there will be happy to answer any of your other questions. Good luck!
-Leah

 

[fenwoman]

Thanks for the reply Are shrimp easy/cheap to buy, wouldn't the fish try to eat them? Also I was wondering about adding snails, any particular species that would work well? I read that 'Malayan snails' are good

The man at the shop reccomended this filter, what do you guys think, is this a good filter for me? The guy basically said you can never have too big of a filter and I read some positive reviews for this product

There are lots of different sorts of shrimps. If your biggest fish is a pearl gourami then they should be safe. if you get snails you will end up with lots of them. Get some lovely yoyo loaches to keep the numbers down.

 

[n3ont3tra]

You could also get a different sort of snails or shrimp. Apple snails are popular, in my experience, but they produce a fair amount of waste. A few should be okay, though. For shrimp, Amano shrimp grow to 2 inches, and so they shouldn't be bothered by a Pearl gourami.

 

[lukestanislaus]

I went ahead and installed the Ehiem filter:
Is this heater position (It's behind in input filter pipe) ok?

This is how it looks now, the murky water is from the water purifying solution:

Also how does this termometer strip on my tank work?
(The water is currently at 25°C)

Also the shop guy gave me some old water and filter media to get the bacteria going