Water Chemistry

[timbruun]

i've been having problems with my fish lately being really skittish. my nitrates were a bit high so i was doing regular water changes. now that is under control but the fish are still worked up. so today i tested my tank water vs tap water. and found that my ph in tank is 8.5 - 8.8 or so and tap is around 7.5-7.8. tested with the api liquid. so i tested my gh and kh with strips since i don't have liquid yet (will be getting) and my kh in both are the same but the gh is alot high in tank. what would cause these fluctuations in the water. i don't like causing my fish stress with constant ph changes. my tap water also has traces of ammonia if that matters.

 

[fatheadminnow]

?

What is your ammonia level in your tank?

Ammonia will make your water more acidic, which will lower your pH, not increase it.

Unless... the trace of ammonia in your tap water may be why your tap water pH level is lower than your pH level in your tank. When you add water to your tank, the bacteria in your filter are going to process the ammonia that was in your tap water. So with a lower amount of ammonia in your tank, this might make your water less acidic, which could be the cause to why your pH is higher in your tank and not in your tap water. A less acidic water is gong to let the pH stabilize to where it normally is, and in your case it is 8.5-8.8.

Just a thought?

-FHM

 

[rdd1952]

Have you checked all the decorations in your tank? Some rocks, especially limestone, will raise GH, KH and pH. If you don't know, you can test by putting a few drops of vinegar on the rock. If it fizzes, it is going to raise them. Here is a pretty good article on GH, KH & pH.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Have you checked all the decorations in your tank? Some rocks, especially limestone, will raise GH, KH and pH. If you don't know, you can test by putting a few drops of vinegar on the rock. If it fizzes, it is going to raise them. Here is a pretty good article on GH, KH & pH.

I totally forgot about that...lol...the vinegar test.

I guess you forget stuff when you are away form the forum too long...

-FHM

 

[timbruun]

ammonia in my tank is 0. except after a water change obviously comes up to under 0.25. i guess the only rock i have in my tank is my substrate. which i can test with vinegar. but it's store bought meant for fish so taht doesn't make sense. otherwise everything is fake. i've been doing the tap test letting it sit. i put some in a pail and tested. got 7.5 or so. watched a movie and now it's up around 7.8-8.0 after a couple hours. going to let it sit and test a few times tomorrow. is there anything i can do about that? it's well water not city water.

edit: i do have a water conditionner in the house. but it's not exactly working. doesn't condition but i still have it flowing through the 5 micron filter. could that cause any problems? should i just be skipping the conditionner completely? i'm trying to get it fixed but it's a big problem.

thanks for the help by the way

 

[fatheadminnow]

No, do not skip the conditioner.

You should be adding water conditioner to the water every time you add water to the tank.

-FHM

 

[timbruun]

sorry i think you misunderstood. i do use conditionner when i add water. but i have a house water treatment conditionner.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Oh, I see...lol.

-FHM

 

[timbruun]

and i guess my next question would be. will the ph difference of 1.0 afffect the fish much when i do my weekly 40% water change? and sometimes another 25% mid week. or am i going to have to somehow start storing a bunch of water for every water change so the ph can balance?

 

[Essjay29 144]

Ammonia will make your water more acidic, which will lower your pH, not increase it.

Ammonia makes the pH more basic, not acidic. I just tested my tapwater, pH just over 7, addded a few drops of ammonia and the pH was off the top of the scale. Ammonia picks up hydrogen ions, forming the ammonium ion, which is one of the definitions of a base. In that definition, an acid is a substance that releases hydrogen ions.

 

[rdd1952]

Ammonia will make your water more acidic, which will lower your pH, not increase it.

Ammonia makes the pH more basic, not acidic. I just tested my tapwater, pH just over 7, addded a few drops of ammonia and the pH was off the top of the scale. Ammonia picks up hydrogen ions, forming the ammonium ion, which is one of the definitions of a base. In that definition, an acid is a substance that releases hydrogen ions.

Agreed. Ammonia is somewhere in the range of 11 to 12 pH so it would actually raise the pH short term. High nitrate, the end result of the nitrogen cycle, will lower the pH and is the cause of "Old Tank Syndrome" and the pH crashes related to it.

EDIT: Before someone gets the wrong impression, I just wanted to clarify. Although ammonia has a high pH, the likelihood that it will have an noticeable effect on the pH is not very high. In a fishless cycle, you are talking about 1ml of ammonia in 5 gallons of water. Not really enough to matter.

 

[timbruun]

which i find weird since my tap has ammonia in it but the ph of the tap is lower than the tank when the ammonia gets brought down to 0. unless something else is causing the ph fluctuations. i'm going to continue with the tap water in a pail test today and see what comes up. anyone know in regards to the water changes?

 

[timbruun]

bump

 

[OldMan47]

The water coming in from high pressure probably has some CO2 dissolved in it. When the CO2 gasses off, the pH rises. Changes caused by CO2 coming out of solution will not bother the fish at all. Fish in the wild live throug daily fluctuations in pH caused by CO2. When the sun comes up, the CO2 gets absorbed by the plants and used for photosynthesis. When the sun goes down, the plants start respiring and putting CO2 into the water along with the fish that are doing it. Over the course of 24 hours, the pH can swing quite a bit in a lake or pond.
You should keep using the 5 micron filter to remove particulates before the water goes into the tank.

 

[timbruun]

ok.. so they are used to 24 hour swings. what about if i do a 50% water change and that would change the pH quite a bit. any problems there? when i was trying to control my nitrates not too long ago they were all getting really stressed but i wasn't sure from what. but i'm starting to think that the ph fluctuations being so quick isn't good. am i right?

and what would be my best options for water changes then?