Vecchioni's Fishless Nitrogen Cycle

You can find KH/GH kits on line in all of the usual places. If I recall correctly, I got mine at e-bay but it may have been at one of the on line pet shops instead. My local pet shops simply do not carry a KH/GH test kit ever so I had no choices. It is an interesting thing to be able to test but, as WD said, it is hardly a necessity, which may be why I could not source it locally.
Baking soda is indeed an easy quick fix during a cycle but I avoid such things once I have fish in my tanks. The only thing I do to control pH in a fish-in situation, before or after being cycled, is to do a water change. As long as your tap water is even close to the fish's requirements, like within 1 or 2 pH units, the chances are good that your fish will do better adapting to your tap water than by having you mess around trying to change things. I have tap water at 7.8 pH but regularly keep fish reputed to like water at 6.5 to 7.0 pH. The fish thrive in my tanks with nothing more than regular water changes and good feeding. Looking at things realistically will help. A fish in the wild in a river that has lots of plants growing sees water much higher in pH at sunset than at sunrise and goes through that movement daily. In the morning, the CO2 content of their water is high because the plants and fish have been giving off CO2 all night through respiration. During the day, the plants will use every scrap of CO2 they can get hold of and will effectively reduce the water's CO2 content to zero. That CO2 move removes the acidic effect of the CO2, carbonic acid, and makes the pH rise almost a whole unit, say from 6.5 to 7.5. The fish ignore the change and go right on with their daily lives of eating whatever they can find in their environment to eat and producing fry by laying eggs or even as livebearers. The newborn fry also have no trouble at all with the swings in pH.
What we often see as a preference for one or another pH more often reflects the ignorance of our predecessors. They could easily measure pH so it is something they recorded. They could not easily measure things like total dissolved solids, TDS, so that was not recorded for native waters. What we ended up knowing was that fish that inhabit waters composed mostly of rain water had a low pH. What we failed to have recorded was that those same waters were very low in mineral content, now expressed as TDS or even on a cruder level as GH. Fish well adapted to low mineral content waters were identified as being low pH fish. Fish from waters originating mainly from deep sourced springs often measured high pH and nobody seemed to recognize that was the result of the limestone that the water had passed through. Again the pH was recorded, because it was easy to measure. These high pH fish were really fish that do best in waters full of minerals. Once you get your arms around the real meaning of traditional water measurements, you will be in a position of judging your own water and its ability / suitability for particular fish. I live in an area that is fed mainly from deep wells and is very high in mineral content. My best bet is fish reputed to like a high pH, and I have found that all such fish really do well in my tanks. In your case, you are seeing the tiny traces of nitrates bounce your pH around. To me that means your water is low in mineral content and you should do great with fish reputed to love a low pH. The pH itself is almost immaterial, the low mineral content will best define the fish most suited to your water
.
 
Yes, anytime I give out the advice of using baking soda as a rapid mineral content adjustment technique for the "bacterial growing soup" I worry that some other beginner (perhaps in a different situation than the OP of the thread where I'm writing) will take the advice out of context and use it on a tank with fish, which would not be the intended use. So I'm glad OM has filled in the context.

In fact, what a nice paragraph! Thanks OM, I enjoy a good read with my morning coffee and that was a particularly good one!

~~waterdrop~~
 
it indeed was a great response and cleared up a lot for me! It seems as the last time i used the pH UP, it has stayed where I adjusted it to. Odd but who knows why :) Regardless the 4.0 ppm of Am is cycling all the way through in 12 hours as of today. Very exciting!
 
that's great tna!

ty sir, it is quite exciting knowing that through all the drama and not understanding and learning that we are getting this close to successfully completing my first ever fishless nitrogen cycle!
 
Yes, there should be a feeling of accomplishment in leaning the cycle and how to evaluate it in your tank at any given period in the tank's history. Its definately a tool that stays with you throughout your time in the hobby, so spending some time understanding it a little more deeply during your very first one is valuable in my opinion.

Speaking of which, I thought I just ask you a little more to try and evaluate your status. It sounds like you're now able to add an amount of ammonia that tests out as about 4ppm and your bacteria will drop that to zero ppm within 12 hours, right? And as we see, your pH has to be watched as it keeps trying to go down for a crash in the low sixes, so you're keeping an eye on that each day I think. What about nitrite? Have you come down off the nitrite spike yet? Is nitrite being cleared to zero ppm within 24 hours or are you left with nitrte still at the end of the 24 hours? The goal of the after-nitrite-spike period is to watch nitrite get cleared faster and faster, until it clears in the same 12 hour or less period like your ammonia, at which time you can start your qualification week. Just wanted to check that all that is understandable and where you think you are with all that.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Yes, there should be a feeling of accomplishment in leaning the cycle and how to evaluate it in your tank at any given period in the tank's history. Its definately a tool that stays with you throughout your time in the hobby, so spending some time understanding it a little more deeply during your very first one is valuable in my opinion.

Speaking of which, I thought I just ask you a little more to try and evaluate your status. It sounds like you're now able to add an amount of ammonia that tests out as about 4ppm and your bacteria will drop that to zero ppm within 12 hours, right? And as we see, your pH has to be watched as it keeps trying to go down for a crash in the low sixes, so you're keeping an eye on that each day I think. What about nitrite? Have you come down off the nitrite spike yet? Is nitrite being cleared to zero ppm within 24 hours or are you left with nitrte still at the end of the 24 hours? The goal of the after-nitrite-spike period is to watch nitrite get cleared faster and faster, until it clears in the same 12 hour or less period like your ammonia, at which time you can start your qualification week. Just wanted to check that all that is understandable and where you think you are with all that.

~~waterdrop~~
Yes sir both Am and Ni are gone within 12 hours!
 
You guys talking about pH UP got me curious so I did something that often helps me understand what the product really is. According to the MSDS on that product it is 10% to 19% sodium bicarbonate and the rest is water. I think it would be perfectly safe to use for cycling a tank but a bit expensive compared to the stuff they sell for baking in a powdered form. I looked into pH down quite a long time ago and at the time they were using phosphoric acid. Today the MSDS shows it to be <10% sulphuric acid. I guess the plant people that always stress out about too much phosporus causing algae made the company decide to change their formulation to a phosphorus-free formula.
 
You guys talking about pH UP got me curious so I did something that often helps me understand what the product really is. According to the MSDS on that product it is 10% to 19% sodium bicarbonate and the rest is water. I think it would be perfectly safe to use for cycling a tank but a bit expensive compared to the stuff they sell for baking in a powdered form. I looked into pH down quite a long time ago and at the time they were using phosphoric acid. Today the MSDS shows it to be <10% sulphuric acid. I guess the plant people that always stress out about too much phosporus causing algae made the company decide to change their formulation to a phosphorus-free formula.

Yea I also was looking into the kH some and I noticed that the pH 7.0 and pH 8.2 and such products are to keep the kH consistent after raising or lowering the level of the pH accordingly. It is also in the form of powder which is what I would assume is relating to the baking soda but more designed for the specific purpose of aquariums.
 

Most reactions

Back
Top