URGENT: MY DALMATIAN MOLLY JUST DIED SUDDENLY AND I NEED TO KNOW WHY

[carligraceee]

HEY GUYS THIS IS SUPER URGENT!

So my Dalmatian molly (Sherlock) was doing fine ever since I purchased him. However, I just purchased a new tank with a filter and heater. I set the heater to around 75 degrees and everything was fine until this morning. One of my girls went into hiding in the house. I couldn't find her. I was worried she was sick. I then look again sometime this afternoon and find that my male dalmatian molly is upside down in the house, breathing heavy and rocking slightly. I knew then something was up. I took out the house, the girl swam immediately under the bridge I have in there. The male tried to swim, but he was severely lopsided and eventually floated upside down. I created a seperate tank for him while I prepared the temp tank for inside my main tank, thinking he was just constipated. I put him in the temp tank (the ones for babies) and he still floated lopsided. I put a peeled pea inside and he didn't eat it.

I look back a couple hours later I found him dead. I took him out and flushed him, taking note of my female dalmatian molly's behavior. Not moving from under the bridge, swimming but staying in the same spot and eventually just laying on the rocks.
My girly just now showed the same signs. Laying upside down but still breathing. I immediately took her out and put her into a new tank that I am preparing for my friend (sorry Charley, I will clean it). It is warm, not filtered just yet but I use the top notch Seachem Prime conditioner (my main tank uses a different brand but it has worked for about a month now and I also use Biological Booster from Imaginatarium in that one as well). It is heated to about 79-80 degrees and she is alone. She has started swimming upright but still lays on the bottom breathing slowly. I see small improvement which leads me to believe it has something to do with the filter, brand of conditioner and water product or the water in general.

For context, I do not know the water information yet. I am going to get it tested as soon as I finish my two finals in the morning.

I NEED to know if it is a disease and if my other fish are contagious or if it has something to do with the water and how I can fix it. I will update with the water info soon.

 

[Kyle E.]

What are your water parameters of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? I could be wrong but it sounds a lot like a chemical poisoning.

Did you cycle your tank first before putting fish in? If you bought a new filter you either need to put old filter media in it or you need to fully cycle it first. If you did not cycle it then the other folks here who are much more knowledgeable about this than me can help you figure out the best way to do it in your situation.

 

[carligraceee]

What are your water parameters of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? I could be wrong but it sounds a lot like a chemical poisoning.

Did you cycle your tank first before putting fish in? If you bought a new filter you either need to put old filter media in it or you need to fully cycle it first. If you did not cycle it then the other folks here who are much more knowledgeable about this than me can help you figure out the best way to do it in your situation.

Thank you so much for replying so quickly!

I just moved the fish into a separate (smaller) tank with no filter and Seachem Prime conditioner in it. The dalmation girly is looking a lot better. I am going to take the water in to test it tomorrow as soon as I finish my two finals.

I will update with that info as soon as I get it.
I will also be cycling the water more, I looked it up and it said 6-8 weeks? Is that correct?

My new tank is a 10g and I will be adding a couple more fish to accompany my four mollies as soon I get this fixed ( not too many, probably like two fish lol).

 

[Kyle E.]

Nonono. It sounds like you are not aware of the nitrogen cycle.

This video should explain it clearly however cheesy it is. Basically fish poop = ammonia. Bacteria in your filter and gravel (not very prevalent in the water) break this down into nitrites (still very toxic) and then into nitrates (not nearly as toxic). The nitrate is then removed during your weekly water changes. This is the main reason we do water changes.


The problem is the good bacteria takes time to grow. Getting this bacteria colony established is called "cycling" the tank. It is generally recommended to do a fishless cycle.

This consists of:
1. Putting some source of ammonia in. Either pure chemical ammonia or fish food that rots and turns into ammonia.
2. The bacteria will then grow in the filter and gravel because their food (ammonia) is there.
3. You keep feeding it ammonia until after you add ammonia the ammonia goes down to 0 within an hour or 2 and the nitrites never go above zero. This means that there is enough bacteria in your tank to deal with the waste your fish produce.

That is a very simplified version but we need some more experience people to chime in here to help you out on the best way to do it for your tank and the fact that you already have fish. Because you did not establish this bacteria before you put the fish in they are producing ammonia but the bacteria is not there to convert it so it is poisoning your fish. This is THE most common mistake made by new aquarium owners (I did this too) so you are not alone.

Moving the fish into a separate tank was a VERY good call at the time. What you need to do now is do a 100% water change in the real tank and move them back with the filter and heater. You will need to do probably around 2 70% water changes a day to keep the ammonia levels down while we wait for others to tell you what your plan actually is to get your tank cycled.

You can buy bottled bacteria at a pet store (Tetra Safe Start, Api Quick Start) and this speeds up the cycling process. I would recommend getting this and dumping it into your tank. It will speed up the process and help your fish out.

Throwing in some fast growing live plants such as frogbit, or really any easy to grow floating plant will help suck out a lot of the ammonia as plants use it to grow. This will also help you control the ammonia. I would recommend getting an API Freshwater Master Test kit as you will need to test the water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates probably multiple times a day and you don't want to go to the pet store that often. It has about 800 tests in it so it might seem expensive but it will last a long time.

@Colin_T @NCaquatics @essjay @Deanasue Can you guys please chime in here as this is about the extent of my knowledge. I don't really know what to tell the OP on how to actually go about doing a proper fish-in cycle here.

This is a great forum and the extremely experienced people here will get you squared away and your tank will be just fine at the end.

 

[CassCats]

Kyle's post was pretty solid, all I have to say is to pick up Seachem Prime to use as your dechlorinator while doing a fish-in cycle, as it protects against the affects of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate (to an extent) for 24-48 hours during the cycling process without it interfering with the bacteria process.

Test your ammonia and nitrites and if they reach 2ppm, do an immediate 50% water change and dose with Prime. Ideally you will be doing water changes every other day to protect the fish and keep the ammonia low while the cycle establishes.

 

[the_lock_man]

Kyle's post was pretty solid, all I have to say is to pick up Seachem Prime to use as your dechlorinator while doing a fish-in cycle, as it protects against the affects of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate (to an extent) for 24-48 hours during the cycling process without it interfering with the bacteria process.

Test your ammonia and nitrites and if they reach 2ppm, do an immediate 50% water change and dose with Prime. Ideally you will be doing water changes every other day to protect the fish and keep the ammonia low while the cycle establishes.

I have been out of the hobby for a couple of years, so things might have moved on, but as far as I am concerned, this is poor advice.

2ppm of either ammonia or nitrite is deadly to the fish.

If you then change 50% of the water, you will still have 1ppm of either ammonia or nitrite. This is still deadly.

You need to be testing the water daily, and if you see either ammonia or nitrite over 0.25ppm, not 2ppm, you need to do a 50% water change.

Someone else also mentioned about Bottle Bacteria. Again, having been out of the hobby for a bit, but back then we didn't set much store by these products, although there were a few fans of Dr Tim's. The Tetra and the API were thought to be not worth the money. They may have improved their formulations more recently, I'll leave the current Mod team (@eaglesaquarium @Ch4rlie @Chad @essjay) to advise more on that.

 

[Kyle E.]

I believe the tetra and api BB work fine now. I have used them and had success with them.

 

[mark4785]

I’m with the lock man on this. The OP needs to ensure that ammonia and nitrite is at 0 ppm at all times. If it is elevated you need to remove the fish and do a 100% water change.

As ammonia and nitrite cause gill irritation this would explain the heavy breathing of the male fish.

My guess is that ammonia poisoning as killed the fish due to an erroneous belief that Seachem Prime prevents ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

To ensure no further deaths occur I suggest:

1. Obtain a Master API testing kit and test for ammonia and nitrite every day for 2 weeks.
2. If ammonia and nitrite are present, remove the fish into a separate tank or bucket containing a heater with similar water parameters and perform a 100% water change on the main tank.
3. Obtain some plants for the aquarium as these will help utilise ammonia and nitrite as they first form. I would recommend duck weed or Amazon frogbit IF your water surface movement is quite steady (they will rot if they get pushed around by a water flow) and IF the aquarium has a high output light source.
4. Ensure to ditch Seachem Prime and get a regular dechlorinating product such as Tetra Aquasafe. The only way to avoid ammonia/nitrite issues is pure elbow grease rather than gimmicks like Seachem prime.

 

[Kyle E.]

Seachem Prime is perfectly fine to use. It may or may not TEMPORARILY detoxify ammonia but even disregarding that it is still the best water conditioner out there. It is perfectly fine to use. Please note that this detoxification is temporary and as mark mentioned is not the solution, just a temporary help for your fish. Water changes are always the answer when ammonia is high.

 

[carligraceee]

Seachem Prime is perfectly fine to use. It may or may not TEMPORARILY detoxify ammonia but even disregarding that it is still the best water conditioner out there. It is perfectly fine to use. Please note that this detoxification is temporary and as mark mentioned is not the solution, just a temporary help for your fish. Water changes are always the answer when ammonia is high.

Okay guys thank you so much for your help. One of the mollies I moved into the separate tank just died but she was breathing extremely heavy already.

I plan on cycling the tank, do I purchase fish for this or do I leave my old fish in there? I will be purchasing a Seachem Prime bottle and a water testing kit today. I will update this thread with my water levels.

I just hope I don't lose my last three fish.

 

[the_lock_man]

I’m with the lock man on this. The OP needs to ensure that ammonia and nitrite is at 0 ppm at all times. If it is elevated you need to remove the fish and do a 100% water change.

As ammonia and nitrite cause gill irritation this would explain the heavy breathing of the male fish.

My guess is that ammonia poisoning as killed the fish due to an erroneous belief that Seachem Prime prevents ammonia and nitrite poisoning.

To ensure no further deaths occur I suggest:

1. Obtain a Master API testing kit and test for ammonia and nitrite every day for 2 weeks.
2. If ammonia and nitrite are present, remove the fish into a separate tank or bucket containing a heater with similar water parameters and perform a 100% water change on the main tank.
3. Obtain some plants for the aquarium as these will help utilise ammonia and nitrite as they first form. I would recommend duck weed or Amazon frogbit IF your water surface movement is quite steady (they will rot if they get pushed around by a water flow) and IF the aquarium has a high output light source.
4. Ensure to ditch Seachem Prime and get a regular dechlorinating product such as Tetra Aquasafe. The only way to avoid ammonia/nitrite issues is pure elbow grease rather than gimmicks like Seachem prime.

Agree wholeheartedly - although with 4, I don't see any reason why Prime should not be used, so long as it is purely as a dechlorinator, not as a rescue product.

 

[CassCats]

I have been out of the hobby for a couple of years, so things might have moved on, but as far as I am concerned, this is poor advice.

2ppm of either ammonia or nitrite is deadly to the fish.

If you then change 50% of the water, you will still have 1ppm of either ammonia or nitrite. This is still deadly.

You need to be testing the water daily, and if you see either ammonia or nitrite over 0.25ppm, not 2ppm, you need to do a 50% water change.

Someone else also mentioned about Bottle Bacteria. Again, having been out of the hobby for a bit, but back then we didn't set much store by these products, although there were a few fans of Dr Tim's. The Tetra and the API were thought to be not worth the money. They may have improved their formulations more recently, I'll leave the current Mod team (@eaglesaquarium @Ch4rlie @Chad @essjay) to advise more on that.

Theyre doing a fish in cycle, and Prime protects up to 2ppm, so giving them a maximum number. Yes should always be 0 but for a fish in cycle this is not really realistic. The goal is to get them through what they have now so they can get to 0 ammonia and nitrate.
Prime is a good dechlorinator to protect fish during a fish in cycle. Its used by many people for this reason.


Either way, I'm even done helping people at this point. Ciao.

 

[Kyle E.]

NOO! Your advice has helped me immensely and I know others have been helped by advice and knowledge coming from your years of experience! Don't let a few events and people stop you from helping others when they are going through similar things. Your tanks are really something to look up to as well.

 

[mark4785]

Okay guys thank you so much for your help. One of the mollies I moved into the separate tank just died but she was breathing extremely heavy already.

I plan on cycling the tank, do I purchase fish for this or do I leave my old fish in there? I will be purchasing a Seachem Prime bottle and a water testing kit today. I will update this thread with my water levels.

I just hope I don't lose my last three fish.

You have two viable options for cycling a tank:

Fishless cycle

• Ensure the tank has no fish in it and acquire some pure liquid ammonia (with no added chemicals). Add 5 drops per 10 gallons daily. Your ammonia level will rise to over 5 ppm/L.

• Once the ammonia level starts to go down, possibly after 1 week of dosing, you will notice an increase in nitrites. At that point reduce to 3 drops of ammonia per 10 gallons daily.

• Once your ammonia and nitrite readings are able to reduce from a positive reading to 0 ppm after 24 hours of each ammonia-dosing you will have completed the priming of the nitrogen cycle which is responsible for processing fish waste. You should follow this up with a 100% water change, a second test for negative ammonia and nitrite readings and then add your fish. Stock the tank minimally to begin with to be extra careful to avoid ammonia increases.

To speed up the above process significantly, ensure your water temperature is 28 degrees C and has a pH of 8.4. You can increase pH by adding bicarbonate of soda.


Planted aquarium

Heavily stock your new aquarium with fast growing plants such as Limnophilla sessiliflora which will utilise toxic wastes like ammonia. Dose the aquarium with macro-nutrients and micro-nutrients for plants and then lightly stock the tank with fish. Test the water daily for ammonia and nitrite as this will be a problem if the plants are not growing.

 

[carligraceee]

Hey all! I got my water tested today and it came back.
They said that my tank is in mid cycle and that I need to let it continue cycling with my remaining three fish left (one of my female mollies began breathing hard after her transfer and died, I am guessing it is from stress). I will be adding my fish either tonight or in the morning and I am preparing myself for another loss or two since that happens a lot with new aquariums. I added a TON of plants including moss balls to help process the ammonia. I also added Prime and a Biological Booster to my tank.

I was told to not change the water until my cycle is complete and then I can start changing the water 15-25% at a time.

Let me know if you have anymore advice. I will be purchasing more mollies in the near future. Much love!


You guys have been beyond helpful! Thank you so much!