Unwanted fish, and the surviving vs thriving dilema

[Beastije]

So, as I said earlier in my other post, I have a middle sized tank (54l brutto), that is housing my "leftover" fish that I moved there when I got a new setup in my larger tank where they used to be past 5 years in various setups. The tank was meant as housing the remaining fish till they waste away due to their age, but also lets face it, the tank is not setup to suit their needs pH wise and temp wise and overall, I feel like I may be torturing the fish.
I have two remaining neolamprologus multifasciatius, which should be in hard water and they are in soft, pH is ok for them, 7,5 but the temp dropped since I removed the heater to 22°C and they should be at 24 C. I also have three harlequin rasboras, which is on their upper level of pH, tempwise is ok, but should be in a group of 6 or more, and I have had a steady decline since last year october, when they die off, due to old age (you get to know the signs).
What surprises me though, is how long they have lasted. I have moved them here with the intention to let them live out the rest of their life somehow comfortably, but not ideally, but that was october. It is now may, the fish look ok and I am worried I am doing more bad than good keeping them in not ideal conditions and well fed.
Where is the limit on what is ok for them and what is torture from my side? I did try to give them away to someone else, but the rasboras are 4 years old at least, and the multifasciatus are both females and they are not that commonly kept and I wanted to increase someones herd and noone keeps them around.
Would it be kinder to euthanize the fish, or is it ok to let them live out the rest of their lives in sub ideal conditions? I am just very torn about this and I see many fishkeeper change their stock, but what do they do with the previous ones?

 

[itiwhetu]

I have just had a person I know that says they are bored with their fish so will flush them and start again. If you keep fish, like any pet, you have it for its natural life or until you can find somebody who will take over the responsibility of that pet. It is not a disposable item.

 

[Beastije]

I have just had a person I know that says they are bored with their fish so will flush them and start again. If you keep fish, like any pet, you have it for its natural life or until you can find somebody who will take over the responsibility of that pet. It is not a disposable item.

Well I did say euthanize, as in humanely, not let them die in a swirl of chemicals and water vortex. And yes, I understand the obligation, that is why I moved to them to this tank in the first place, to live out the rest of their lives, but they are now being kept in not ideal conditions for longer period of time than I assumed, so when does it become bad from my side keeping them like that.

 

[GaryE]

Stores often don't want fish back because neglected fish tend to be diseased fish. But if you've done your best, try giving them away on a message board. In North America, there are dozens of places to sell, trade or give away anything from sofas and cars to fish. Try to rehome them. They're fish people would want.

I have had healthy harlequins live in excess of 5 years, and cardinals going to 9. Our belief we're keeping them for a natural lifestyle generally only works if we consider ourselves as the predators who eat them in the wild. In a safe tank, the lifespan of healthy fish would shock many aquarists.

In dinosaur days, aquarists formed clubs and problems like yours were easy to humanely deal with. We had networks and people we talked fish with, and rehoming was easy. Now, we are an anti-social bunch who don't even know if the people we talk to live next door to us.

 

[Beastije]

Not so much here, monthly meetings of fish keepers, regular trade of plants and fish. I have had since october ad for both of my species, giving them away for free, but no biters Also I would absolutely hate if they were sick from the transport and someone brought them and they brought disease, which can always happen, it is a different environment after all. I will try to again post them for free, but lets face, Idont want to give them to someone who will keep them in bad conditions either.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Tbh I think everyone who has kept fish has faced a dilemma such as this and I do empathise with you cos it truly is not easy to decide the best way forward.

I think if I were in your shoes, I would be inclined to keep them in as good as conditions as you possibly and practically can and let them live out their days. Keep them comfortable and clean. It could be for weeks or months but as long as you feel able to care for them in as close to normal conditions as you are able to, then that's what I would do. As you rightfully say, the fish will indicate if they are feeling "off" or if they have reached the end of the road and you can deal with that as/when it arises. But if they are currently eating well and active, then carry on as you are doing for as long as it is practical for you to do so. You know your fish better than anyone here, they will soon tell you if they are not happy.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Simply look at your fish. If they are doing fine though the parameters are a bit of, why worry and WHY euthanise ?

Your fish and tank itself tell the story.
AND don't tell them !

 

[Beastije]

Simply look at your fish. If they are doing fine though the parameters are a bit of, why worry and WHY euthanise ?

Your fish and tank itself tell the story.
AND don't tell them !

As in dont tell them I have considered that? ) Sure, can do that

Thanks guys, I did replace ads to look for new suitable owners, but if not, they are going to have some more fun with me

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Why is the feeding sub-optimal?
I agree that I wouldn't fret about the pH water parameters etc, given their age and how long they've been in your tanks already. but why not try to keep their tank at a reasonable temp and with regular feeding??

I have two black neons, one cardinal, and three glowlights still that I inherited with a tank. The rest of their schools had passed away over the years, and these remaining ones are way too old to rehome. They're better off in the tank they've spent their lives in so they can pass away there, rather going through the stress of adapting to new water conditions and trying to join a school of young juvenile fish that are very likely to bully them. Have already had a neon, cardinal and danios pass away, and I'd be surprised if these remaining ones last another year. I don't intend to keep any of these species myself, and plus the "bullying from younger fish" issue, means getting more of the same species would make no sense. They're in water that's much harder than they should be, but again, it's the water they've been in their whole lives, the damage is done, so moving them elsewhere to change the water doesn't make sense either.

But, they're still in the tank they've always been in, at the right temp and fed right. I make their retirement as comfortable as possible, because that's what you do when you commit to caring for an animal. So I can't wrap my brain around removing the heater and not feeding enough. Or euthanising just because they're not dying fast enough for your liking!! Just, why?

 

[Beastije]

Why is the feeding sub-optimal?
I agree that I wouldn't fret about the pH water parameters etc, given their age and how long they've been in your tanks already. but why not try to keep their tank at a reasonable temp and with regular feeding??

Oh no, they are well fed, I said in not ideal conditions and well fed. I fed frozen cyclops just today

I have two snails with them that cant do higher temp and I just removed the heater and didnt think about it, but the fishbases articles say keep in 24 degrees . They are not showing any of the issues with low temp that they had when my heater gave out in the winter, when the temp fell to 18°C, they were sluggish and darker, now they are active and feeding well, so I didnt see reason to change it until I checked today the requirements. Though same requirements say the Anubias shouldnt go under 22C either and I havent noticed any issue with the plants, so maybe lower is less problematic than higher? Am confused now.
As summer is here, the temp may rise slightly without the heater and I plan to see what it does in the autumn, if it can be without it.

 

[Beastije]

But, they're still in the tank they've always been in, at the right temp and fed right.

Also that is the thing, they are NOT in the tank they have always been, they are in a different tank, different plants, different filter, and thanks to the fact that I moved in past years I had to switch from the multifasciatus, because I suddenly had too soft water for them. This brings the question if the fish is not suffering unnecessarily, because in such small water container without my proper testing equipment, I am not comfortable messing with the water hardness, given how soft the tap water is

 

[Wills]

I don't think there is ever reason to euthanise for these reasons, if you are actively trying to rehome them then the situation is temporary. Even if it reaches a few months its unlikely that you wont be able to find a home for them eventually.

Do you not have an LFS that would take them for you? In the UK we have a chain that wont buy fish but will take them in. Eg your rasboras would potentially join a young school in store etc. Surely handing them to a store if you cant find a keeper is a better option that euthanising them?

Wills

 

[DoubleDutch]

As in dont tell them I have considered that? ) Sure, can do that

Thanks guys, I did replace ads to look for new suitable owners, but if not, they are going to have some more fun with me

As in : If you don't tell them they aren't in the right waterconditions they won't know and not won't complain hahahaha

 

[Beastije]

Thanks. Including a picture, for show and tell

 

[Beastije]

Btw, the joke is on me, thanks to the temp spike outside, the temp in the tank is 24°C...so there is that