To Keep Trying to Breed or not?

[GaryE]

I would go to Seriously Fish and look up Nannostomus beckfordi. That's what they look like to me. Confirm that's your species, and then if they're beckfords, get ready to party. That is a really good pencil to start breeding with - one of the easier egg layers. It's also rewarding, because they are beauties.

 

[MuddyWaters]

A huge issue with egg layers is the tastiness of eggs. In large groups, you sometimes get trailers behind the spawning pair wolfing down eggs as they go.

I bet that's what is happening with me. I tried the Green Fire tetras and the Celestial Pearl Danios both in groups.

 

[MuddyWaters]

I would go to Seriously Fish and look up Nannostomus beckfordi. That's what they look like to me. Confirm that's your species, and then if they're beckfords, get ready to party. That is a really good pencil to start breeding with - one of the easier egg layers. It's also rewarding, because they are beauties.

From Seriously Fish:

tends to inhabit the middle-to-upper regions of the tank, and does not often predate fry.

Wonder if this includes fry that are still in eggs? LOL

I see the type of tank they like, but wondering, if I'm breeding them, should I put a bunch of moss on the bottom with a false bottom to keep them away from the eggs or should I set up the tank with all of the things they like and hope that I have enough cover for eggs to make it?

one other note: I have very soft water (tds about 75 from the tap) so I have never bothered with RO, although I can see where it would give a lot more control over what I do- thoughts on using conditioned tap water? I've seen you guys talking about stuff like the balance of magnesium vs. calcium and my head spins...

 

[MuddyWaters]

Well, as usual, thank you all for your input. I have learned that I can't just "wing it" and make this stuff happen. I see certain fish in my big tank just pumping out babies like no tomorrow, and figured with a little setup and check of water conditions I'd get the same results from all the fish I try. Certainly, that is not the case.

I'm reinvigorated, though- I need to re-think some of what I have in my fish room (otherwise weirdly known as the "laundry room" for some reason) to accommodate being able to move pairs around and stuff like that.

Thanks for getting me fired up again! The master breeder at our club recently gave a talk on breeding fish, and on every slide he showed he had "Don't stress out" LOL. I see the importance of it because it looks like all the fiddling to get them to breed is a big part of the fun.

 

[MuddyWaters]

Don't know why. Made me think of this. I play this, (and about a doxen similar), when I get lost or frustrated with a project.

One of the greatest albums of all time.

 

[seangee]

I don't have enough data to generalise but my lamb chops (trigonostigma espei) are at it again after today's water change. Since I spotted some fry I have been feeding several times a day (for the juveniles) but haven't done anything different in this tank. My temperature matching for water change is simply to stick a finger into the new water and another into the tank to make sure the temps are not very different. Today the temp in my tank dropped by 1.5C (or 3f) after the WC.
I'm not realistically expecting any fry after this week or last week's activities because they are in a busy community tank. No harm because I don't need any more lamb chops for now. But I may just have a more focussed attempt with the pencil fish and ember tetras when I get back from my hols.
So far the embers haven't shown any inclination to spawn. I have been feeding them up for a couple of weeks. Today I increased the temp to 27C (from 25) and turned the filter down to a trickle. If that works I will move the adults out - but any fry will have to fend for themselves because I will be away for 3 weeks.

 

[GaryE]

I've actually "bred" beckfordi by giving them a heavily planted single species tank, and feeding them small food. Babies appeared and became adults in time. I had medium hard (ish) water back then. If I could get some now with my current soft water, I'm sure I could have lots of them.

They show something no one wanting to breed should forget. These are not breeds of fish, but are species. What you do with a Nannostomus from one region (let's say beckfordi) and one from another region (trifasciatus, for example) is very different. I had fry show up with beckfordi, but if I try with trifasciatus, I'm playing in a higher league. One size doesn't fit all. That's half the fun. If it were easy, they'd be guppies.

 

[seangee]

But I may just have a more focussed attempt with the pencil fish and ember tetras when I get back from my hols.

Just realised I will have to, or put my hand in my pocket. I noticed one of the pencil fish was off colour yesterday. Unfortunately he is not going to make it so I will likely put him out of his misery tonight. As he is probably 5 years old I suspect its old age - symptoms are loss of balance, swimming vertically and spinning. This will leave 2 females and 1 male. I have 7 ember tetras but of these 6 are visibly carrying eggs - so if anything happens to the lad... No idea how old these are, they all seem in good health but I suspect all were born in my tank as its about 6 years since I bought any.

 

[Innesfan]

I love pencil fish- I have 6 I got from one of the club auctions. The breed I have is brown/gold with black stripe and light blue tips on some of the fins. ....let me see if I can find a pic... would these be a good candidate for a ham-fisted wannabe breeder like me?
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I agree with @GaryE -- N. beckfordi. There are many regional forms with varying amount of red on the body and fins, plus they are being farmed in Indonesia. Czech breeders are also working with them producing, among others, a 'super red' form which they are exporting. AquaticClarity has them in stock. My experience with the species is as @GaryE states--put them in a well planted tank and fry appear.

 

[MuddyWaters]

I agree with @GaryE -- N. beckfordi. There are many regional forms with varying amount of red on the body and fins, plus they are being farmed in Indonesia. Czech breeders are also working with them producing, among others, a 'super red' form which they are exporting. AquaticClarity has them in stock. My experience with the species is as @GaryE states--put them in a well planted tank and fry appear.

This I will do! I would like to have some success, and I'm finally to the point where I come to the realization that I just can't jump right in the deep end and swim.

UPDATE! i was just looking at my crystal red shrimp- I had added an algae wafer for them to nibble on and wanted to see if they found it. Not only did they find it, but a female chowing down was fluttering those spinnerets (or whatever they're called) to keep water flowing across some beautiful tiny eggs underneath her! So happy!!!

 

[Colin_T]

UPDATE! i was just looking at my crystal red shrimp- I had added an algae wafer for them to nibble on and wanted to see if they found it. Not only did they find it, but a female chowing down was fluttering those spinnerets (or whatever they're called) to keep water flowing across some beautiful tiny eggs underneath her! So happy!!!

pleopods or spinnerets

 

[seangee]

I have often seen the advice to add cooler water to trigger spawning. What does this actually mean, or what do people find most effective?:

1. Add cooler water and leave the heaters on (so it comes back up fairly quickly)
2. Add cooler water and leave the heaters off for a few hours or days
3. Add cooler water and adjust the heater to the lower setting (semi permanent change)

 

[MaloK]

pleopods or spinerets

Swimmerets Are primarily swimming legs, and are also used for brooding the eggs.

Spinnerets Are the organs that produce thread from silkworms and spiders.

 

[seangee]

So far the embers haven't shown any inclination to spawn. I have been feeding them up for a couple of weeks. Today I increased the temp to 27C (from 25) and turned the filter down to a trickle. If that works I will move the adults out - but any fry will have to fend for themselves because I will be away for 3 weeks.

Finally some early signs of action. I have continued with the daily 25% cool water changes. In the meantime I have lowered the lighting a bit. After completely ignoring the females, and staying slighlty apart he has now decided (in the last hour) its time to start chasing them around. pH in the tank is 6. Depending on what happens the rest of the evening I'll either remove the adults in the morning or add half a cattapa leaf.

 

[MaloK]

I really relented to ask.. More than x...

But the process between removing adults and adding cattapa.

Leaf me open to discussion.

What would it do more ?