breeding fish... a retired guys hobby???

Magnum Man

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I'm inching ever closer to a "fixed income" right now, I'm kind of semi retired, but am working harder than I did previously... this is changing the hobby for me... I love my community tanks, but they get kind of boring, when you never buy new fish, then slowly over time, they start to thin out, and nothing new replaces them... I have started to breed some small live bearers, that are in my colored shrimp tanks.. so as long as I maintain the tanks, those end up with extra fish and shrimp...

maybe this is where line breeding comes in... trying to get something new and interesting, without having to buy more???

I'm missing spending money on new and interesting fish.... maybe breeding something bigger than endlers or guppies, or working on line breeding something new or colorful is my next phase???
 
I managed to pay for my entire hobby costs from breeding rare plecos. This is a lot different than breeding more common and way less expensive fish. I started with the common BN tank strains but they are a money loser in terms of making a profit. While breeding less pricey fish may be both interesting and fun, if ones goal it to come out ahead, it is a lot easier to sell one $500 fish than to sell a hundred $5 fish.

I fell in love with the B&W Hypancistrus early on. I could not wait to get my first zebra plecos. Then I just wanted to have a few to have them and i managed to get a couple finally. And then I was presented with a really nice opportunity. I was offered a proven breeding group of 13 fish and a number of fry from them. Once i decided I had to get them, I had to break into my IRA to pay the $3,500 they cost.

Then I got lucky. Just over two weeks after the went into my tank the alpha make spawned, Two weeks later the #2 male spawned. Under normal circumstances the male is willing to spawn monthly. That is the time from the actual spawn to when the dad kick the free swimming fry out of the cave if they have not left on their own. So the two fish continued to spawn such that I was getting new fry about every two weeks. They did go on a hiatus every 10 months or so and then resumed after about a 3+ month break. In the first year I had over 100 fry.

When they got big enough for me to feel safe shipping them I started to sell babies in Feb. of the next year. I developed a waiting list for the fry. Most people do not buy more than a couple of BN, maybe 5 if I was lucky. I sold the zebras with a 5 fish minimum order and a max of 10 to any one buyer. I wanted to spread them around. They important fact was that one box of 5 zebras grossed me more money than one year of selling BN.

The zebras paid me back for what they cost, They they paid me back for every dollar I had spent on my entire fish keeping hobby to day. Then they provided me with the capital to buy my next group of plecos. Utimately, I ended up with a number of Hupancistrus species I had breeding. The last two groups of fish I acquired cost me an average of $1,000 for one species and $800 for another. The money for this came from what I was breeding, So I started to make spending money.

I was able to sell my fish without being on any social media and without having my own site for doing so. Because the fish I was working with were both rare and not so easy to find, people managed to find me. I did have a thread on what i was doing on one site and I joined at Planetcatfish and had threads there about what I was breeding. I also sold in the vendor room at the annual NEC weekend event and also at the bi-annual Catfish Convention just outside of Washington DC. My final event was the 2023 Keystone clash in PA. I have been downsizig since about 2022 and now have only one breeding group remaining.

The point of what I am telling you is that oif you are looking for extra income, then inexpensive fish are not the way to go. These need to be produced in huge numbers and selling them is much more work and has a pretty low margin on the hobby scale as opposed to being a fish farm.

I am not suggesting that you need to work with the plecos I chose to breed and sell. I have a thing for the B&W Hypans, so they are what I chose. What I am suggesting is you should find species you really like and which are more expensive and work with them. While it may be fun working with species that are inexpensive relatively speaking, but is is very difficult to make that profitable.

Yes, I spent many $1,000s to acquire the fish I worked with over time, but they are the ones that can make a profit without working me to the point of it making more sense to take a part time job at McDonalds or Burger King to make spending money than to breed and sell large numbers of more lower value species. If you want to do that it makes more sense to buy them for resale than to breed them.

One last observation here. I set up my very first tank, a community, at the end of Jan 2001. I spent the next few years learning to care for fish and what it took to breed them. I did not get the breeding group of zebras until over 5 years after that. But once I had them for a while it was the start of a great adventure which was worth it on many levels, especially making a profit. I was able to do what i did from my home. Unlike many folks this house has no basement and no room where i could have a centralized system.

My tanks have been spread out across two buildings and up to 5 room in the summer. I have pumps and long hoses to enable me to do this. But the fish I worked with were smaller in size and I had 20L, 33L and 40B tanks. it took me about 10-12 years to put a 75 gal and a 125 gal into use for breeding and growing out. This was more work but not so much that it turned me off to the process.

Consider all of this in deciding what species you decide you will try to work with as it is much easier to make money selling fewer fish but at a much higher price/fish. I was a stroke of luck that I was offered that first breeding group of zebras as i 2006 finding such group was nearly impossible. I hope this info is helpful in how you decide to proceed.
 
I paid for all my fish stuff with money/ credit from fish I bred and sold/ traded to shops. I bred rainbowfish, a few killifish, some dwarf cichlids and some Corydoras. The rainbows were the main seller and I had my bread and butter fishes that I bred and sold all the time (Melanotaenia boesemani, lacustris, praecox, Rhadinocentrus ornatus, Glossolepis incisus). I also bred about 5 or 6 other species each month and they were the less common types that didn't sell as fast. I had them on a rotating basis so each of the uncommon species were bred once or twice a year. I unload them and they sit in the shops for a few months, then they were unavailable for a bit before being put back on the market again.

I actually forced the price of rainbowfish down so they could sell more. Small rainbowfish from the common types I mentioned above, used to sell for $15-20ea, sometimes more ($40-50ea). Customers wanted them but most couldn't afford or wouldn't spend $100+ for a group of fish. Some people did but most didn't. When I started selling rainbowfish I brought the price down to about $6 per fish (retail price). This meant people could buy a group and the shops started selling lots of rainbowfish. It worked well for me because they were easy to breed and produced a lot of young. A number of other breeders were slightly annoyed with me. :)

My issue was lack of space and I was breeding and rearing fish in 2ft tanks. If I had a decent property with lots of land, I would set up a heap of big ponds (1000 gallons+). Then put 10-12 fish from a single species in each pond in spring and leave them there until the water cools down in autumn. Then sell what you don't want. If you do that with some common species and some unusual species, you have a big pool of fish to sell and some shops buy some if this while others buy some of that.

The other way to go is to breed a species of fish and put the fry in the ponds to grow up. Then you simply net the young out every 2-3 months and sell them. You sell more batches this way but it requires more work.

You can put greenhouses over the ponds to extend the growing season. Fill the ponds with plants and sell them too. You can have shrimp with some species and let them breed and sell them. If you mix surface dwellers with bottom dwellers you can usually get two species per pond and get young from both types.
 
I came out of a hobbyist scene where serious fishbreeders started in their 20s and ran into their 80s. I got into it when I was a kid, not seriously, and again after I became a Dad and started being home all the time after work. But that sort of scene is done, it seems. Now as a retired guy, I have more time to explore my fish. It isn't for money. I don't make much, and I never did directly from breeding. I've bred over 200 species, and I've given away almost as many young as I've sold. Goodwill earned can beat cash when you're a person who looks for rarities. Give away enough fish, and people reciprocate, sometimes years later.

I like challenges in my tanks. Breeding fish gives me that, because while linebreeding holds zero interest for me, successfully breeding a fish that isn't easy to breed gives me a kick. I like the research, figuring out how it's to be done, figuring out how to raise the young, etc. You can take a very common pet store fish that isn't regularly hobbyist bred, and try to get young from it. That can be a surprisingly complicated puzzle.

I've seen a lot of hobbyists decide to breed livebearers etc for money. It has more often than not killed their pastime, and they rarely stay in the hobby after.

Fish were a sideline business for me before retirement. I sold information, wrote articles, wrote books, edited books for other writers and for companies, made videos, answered advice columns in the print days - the whole shebang. Maybe I could go back to that in its post-print form, or maybe not. I amuse myself and pester you lot.
 
I was never big on giving fish away, although a couple of time i did so for special; people. However, what I did do was to put fish into auctions where the entire proceeds were donated to a site or fish related organization.

However, I did give discounts to some folks on fish I was selling. I was never interested in selling for below market pricing although I was never the most expensive seller. The reason for this was simple. I wanted my fish to go to people who wanted to try to breed them, What I did not want to do was to have people buy a bunch of my fish in order to resell them. I was never the most expensive nor the cheapest seller of any of the species I bred. My prices were fair. The one thing I did for sure was to sell only healthy fish.

I never sold to stores and I very rarely sold at auction. But i did offer my fish to memebers on PlanetCafish.com. Byuers had to be members in good standing, usually for at least 6 months. I aalso discounted the price for these sales and I always donated 10% of the sale proceeds to the site.

For those fish I kept in my display type tanks that bred, I would often give them away.
 
OK, I'm coming to fish breeding in a different way. When we had easy breeding CA cichids & African kribensis, we traded lfs for new fish or food. No cash involved, easy for us & them...until our fish outbred the local market...

Don't get me wrong, breeding fish is fun! But that's all it was to us, a hobby & hobbies cost $$. I have sewellia loaches that breed a few every year without effort. & I've had lfs interested in selling them. But tearing down a big tank to catch them is more bother than I want these days.

I was given a small group of rare fish that, if they should breed, I would do my best by them. I would feel obligated to raise them to a sellable size & give any profit to my mentor & be thrilled that I could. I know it would be more work than I'd prefer but I can & would do it. I have no interest in learning how to ship but I live in a biggish market, that might be good enough.

As you can see, to me there's a big difference between accidental breeding just for fun & a more $$ focused "business", even to just pay for part of my hobby or my friend's.

Oh & breeding is not just a "guys" hobby ;)
 
Oh & breeding is not just a "guys" hobby ;)
One of the guys in fish club used to tell us about the rainbowfish he was breeding. From what he said, he had reasonably good success. We went to his house one day and looked at his fish. We asked a few questions and he called his wife in to answer for him. Well it turned out he might have paid for the fish, tanks and equipment, but she did the water changes, fed them, and set up breeding tanks where she separated eggs and raised the fry. We gave him heaps of crap after that and instead of asking how his fish were doing, we asked how his wife's fish were doing :)
 
Sorry, I tend to use "guys" for all people, but 'old guys' only for aged ones built like me.

I think you have to define why you breed fish.

You can try to supply a store. I do that with bags of tetras for a young guy's store. We're out of the mainstream geographically and shipping is very expensive. A few nice fish sold cheaper than the chain store here can, with locally bred written on the tank is good for him. I get store credit. Some try to do these things to make money, and I wish them the best. Energy and space costs are hard to overcome.

twotank specialized in a rare fish which was very expensive, and sold that one species because he had a stellar reputation in the small circle of people who kept it. Niche breeding like that can give you nice pocket money.

I'm a generalist who breeds to learn about a lot of fish. Lots of tanks, lots of turnover around a few core species. I like colourful fish, but more and more I look at fish in stores and wonder how they work. That's become the main focus for me, though I've learned if I breed a wondrous grey fish, no one wants the young and then I have a problem of space.

As for sharing, I've always liked barter economies for hobbies. If I see a serious breeder, I'd rather pass them a fish they can't get than sell it to someone who simply has money to spend. Many times, five or ten years later, I've gotten a note saying the breeder who got my fish had found something I'd like and bred it, and would I want some? That's how I built my killie hobby. I didn't often ask for money, and I didn't often pay for incredible rarities. What goes around comes around, often enough to be a pleasure.

Another type of breeding I once fooled myself into thinking I was preparing myself for is conservation breeding. There, you set up and breed endangered or extinct in nature fish, because if we don't, no one will. I bred a lot of Goodeids at one time, and some endangered rainbows. For that, you need infrastructure and connections with like minded people. We're like fruit flies breeding blue whales in conservation breeding - these species are ancient and we're short lived in relative terms. Very few hobbyists are able to build the level of network we need there, for all our talk, and while it's worth a try, you need very organized genetic data, studbooks and exchanges. You need likeminded people not far away, and a constant influx of new volunteers who stick with it.

LInebreeding to create new forms comes and goes in popularity, but demands resources, lots of tanks and good record keeping. It lends itself to places where there are show circuits.

The hobby is changing. It's moving to Asia, which will bring cultural changes. Here, my old club had an average age well into the sixties at meetings, and was almost all male. My new club where I've moved is already twice as big, majority women and has an age around the early thirties. So different perspectives will build different things, and I can pass along whatever old fish culture things are deemed relevant by the young keepers. If you're looking to breed fish in retirement, you have to know what's around you in terms of a community to profit from your efforts.
 
I still can't even imagine having the time it would take to do breeding, justice in my retirement, still too many things to do, and the breeding of food animals is still high on my list... but there will be less money to spend on the aquarium hobby in the future, and because of the farm animals, extended travel is not in our long term plans... we are looking to do day trips, or really couple day trips, so no competition on time to maintaining tanks... I just want to actually keep "fish" in the tanks... my south American Tetra tank, and Hillstream tanks are still my favorites probably as much because of activity and stocking level, as anything else...

so, finding a fish that could breed in a community type situation, may be best for me in the long run... I'm not really looking for additional income, but more so, a self sustaining hobby, of fish that I find interesting... I've never really kept fish like sword tails, and they have caught my eye lately... I did keep a 55 gallon tank of Molly's as a food source, back in my Sea Horse days, raised in brackish water, so the babies would last longer when added to the salt tanks for a live food source... my mind wandered to trying a tank of large sailfin Molly's , or similar...
 
@fishorama ... and let me apologize for the non gender use of the word "guys" many of the better fish keepers I've known have been women... but alas, in my case, I'm an old man, and my wife likes to look, but has no interest in the keeping of the tanks
 

breeding fish... a retired guys hobby???​

Well, overhere in Holland there has been a long period that young people just didn't feel like having a fishtank. And during that period, it did seem that only the older generation was mainly active in this hobby. But fortunately, nowadays a lot of young people are interested again in this magnificent hobby... I do encourage it by the max...
 
anyone breed Yucatán Mollies ( Poecilia velifera ) also known as giant Mollies )

a 6-7 inch Molly would be something interesting
not sure of their availability for me

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I used to keep some. Nice fish for very large hardwater tanks. I wouldn't get them again unless I had several tanks for them, as the males dislike each other. And if they breed for you, you get a few males...
 
I'v always been partial to the wild "type" green sail fins...

when i raised mollys before, they were for feeders for Sea Horses, so only the babies were fed, And I wanted smalls... so my strain were all small and prolific

I have a 55 gallon, that is a literal jungle ( failed barb tank ) that has mostly plants in it right now... without too much work, I think I can add some limestone slabs, of which, I have a large quantity left over from my rift lake Cichlid tanks from a previous life.... and bring the heat up to tropical temperatures again, and maybe work on getting as "wild" a look out of the fish as possible, with selective culling???
IMG_8583.png

I also have a couple larger hard water tanks left over from breeding Tilapia, so if I deep dived into this, I have a 45 gallon, 55 gallon, and 65 gallon, I could devote to this endeavor
 
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