Time for ammonia solution to mix with tank water?

[rebe]

I'm trying to find the answer myself on google but I'm having no luck. So I hope you don't mind me asking here, you've all been so supportive and helpful with my previous questions.

This morning I added 0.75 mls of my homemade ammonia solution to my tank. I first tested my water and there was 0ppm ammonia and nitrite, and somewhere between 5-10ppm nitrate.

It's 14 hours later and I've tested my water again, and 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite and I would guess the nitrate went up but it still looks between 5-10ppm.

I want to add the same amount of ammonia solution to my tank, let it mix with the tank water and test again to see how much ammonia was processed into nitrate by the bacteria and plants.
(Since my ammonia solution is homemade, I don't have any numbers in terms of how much solution equals to however many parts per million. )

My tank is 105L minus the volume of the substrate, hardscape and plants.
And the filter is the Aquael ASAP 500 (made for 50 - 150 L aquariums, Max 500 L/H). I made my own prefilter sponge, I don't know if that affects anything.

How long do you think I should wait before testing the water after adding solution?

Thank you for any guesses!

 

[Ichthys]

All depends on how much flow you have in the tank. Anywhere from a couple of minutes to half an hour…

 

[rebe]

All depends on how much flow you have in the tank. Anywhere from a couple of minutes to half an hour…

Do you recon 30 minutes would be enough? I could do that in the morning before I leave for the day

 

[Ichthys]

Do you recon 30 minutes would be enough? I could do that in the morning before I leave for the day

Should be. You could always give it a swish when you add it, that’ll mix it quickly.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

There are ammonium chloride solutions for fishless cycle on the market:
Dr. Tim's Ammonium Chloride https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dr-Tims-Aq...6332&sprefix=ammonium+chloride,aps,177&sr=8-1
or Fritz Fishless Fuel https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fritz-Aqua...monium+chloride+fishless+fuel,aps,229&sr=8-13Fritz

For some reason when I check the above links because I am in the states they default to USA Amazon. If you have a problem, go to AMazon UK and then enter the bolded names above to get to the proper page.

 

[Headshrinker]

If you don't know much ammonia you're putting in, how can you control the process? I'd suggest getting Dr Tim's product and using their guide, take the guesswork away.

Or just use Nitrico Goop.

 

[rebe]

I'm going to reply to you both with one response if that's okay,
@Headshrinker @TwoTankAmin

Doctor Tim's, other aquarium purposed ammonia products, household ammonia without additives/soap and powdered ammonia chloride are not available to me in Ireland. The only option (other than large tax and shipping fees making a €10 product at least €60) was to create my own solution.
Pure ammonium bicarbonate (a cooking/ baking product) dissolved and brought to a boil will convert to ammonia, water vapour and small amounts of carbon dioxide. I used 16 grams in 50 mls water.

Test 1:
At 23:44 yesterday I added 8mls of my solution, which measured as 2ppm Ammonia at 07:47 this morning. At 14:49 the ammonia had gone down to 1ppm.

Test 2:
Maximum tank volume without fish, hardscape, equipment, sand etc: 105L
-> somewhere less than 100L water in the tank (100L used for calculations)

10mls solution per 100 L -> 0.5ml solution per 5000 mls

Mixed 0.5 ml of my homemade ammonia solution in a 5L/5000ml bottle filled with un-dechlorinated water (due to seachem prime's effect on ammonia). Result was approx. 4ppm Ammonia

This would suggest that 10mls of solution added to my tank would add at least 4ppm Ammonia


Plans:
1. Test tank water parameters and if there is no ammonia or nitrites, with some nitrates then:
2. Add 10mls of homemade ammonia solution, stir as much as possible without disturbing plants or sand, run filter.
3. Measure tank ammonia after ten minutes

If the ammonia level is very low, wait and test again (stir again probably).

4. Once the tank ammonia reaches around 4ppm then wait 24 hours
5. Measure the tank water's ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels
6. Draw conclusions

 

[AlexT]

I'm going to reply to you both with one response if that's okay,
@Headshrinker @TwoTankAmin

Doctor Tim's, other aquarium purposed ammonia products, household ammonia without additives/soap and powdered ammonia chloride are not available to me in Ireland. The only option (other than large tax and shipping fees making a €10 product at least €60) was to create my own solution.
Pure ammonium bicarbonate (a cooking/ baking product) dissolved and brought to a boil will convert to ammonia, water vapour and small amounts of carbon dioxide. I used 16 grams in 50 mls water.
View attachment 326406

View attachment 326407

Test 1:
At 23:44 yesterday I added 8mls of my solution, which measured as 2ppm Ammonia at 07:47 this morning. At 14:49 the ammonia had gone down to 1ppm.

Test 2:
Maximum tank volume without fish, hardscape, equipment, sand etc: 105L
-> somewhere less than 100L water in the tank (100L used for calculations)

10mls solution per 100 L -> 0.5ml solution per 5000 mls

Mixed 0.5 ml of my homemade ammonia solution in a 5L/5000ml bottle filled with un-dechlorinated water (due to seachem prime's effect on ammonia). Result was approx. 4ppm Ammonia

This would suggest that 10mls of solution added to my tank would add at least 4ppm Ammonia


Plans:
1. Test tank water parameters and if there is no ammonia or nitrites, with some nitrates then:
2. Add 10mls of homemade ammonia solution, stir as much as possible without disturbing plants or sand, run filter.
3. Measure tank ammonia after ten minutes

If the ammonia level is very low, wait and test again (stir again probably).

4. Once the tank ammonia reaches around 4ppm then wait 24 hours
5. Measure the tank water's ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels
6. Draw conclusions

Brilliant. You would make a great scientist. Some argue to try and keep the ammonia to a max of 3ppm. Dr Tim's guidelines say 5ppm maximum, so maybe don't go above 4ppm if possible.

 

[rebe]

Brilliant. You would make a great scientist. Some argue to try and keep the ammonia to a max of 3ppm. Dr Tim's guidelines say 5ppm maximum, so maybe don't go above 4ppm if possible.

Aw thank you Alex! I try to make up for at least some of my inexperience with lots of research and planning (though I think any new fish/aquarium keeper should). I'm grateful for the TFF, the advice and support from you all is invaluable!

I can definitely add less than the 10mls. I read somewhere a while ago that to successfully add the first group of fish you should aim for 3-4ppm ammonia converted to nitrate in 24h. That's what I had in my head, along with the 5ppm suggested for Dr.Tims.

So instead, what do you recommend to aim for (ppms of ammonia)? I know that fish don't release a single, large ammonia spike every 24h, but instead the release is more gradual and even. (Apart from feeding/overfeeding I suppose). I could probably split it up and dose say, 2ppm every 12h. Until my next "ammonia solution testing phase" is complete, I won't know how much my tank is already capable of consuming/processing anyway

 

[AlexT]

This was written by @TwoTankAmin https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

This is a great thread between @777james777 and @Essjay worth reading it all https://www.fishforums.net/threads/new-to-the-forum.489137/

And you have Dr Tim's take here https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library/quick-guide-to-fishless-cycling-with-one-and-only/

Nice bit of bedtime reading for you

 

[Ichthys]

Waterlife Seamature (now Biomature) instructions were always to add daily until either ammonia reached 5ppm OR nitrite reached 15ppm, whichever came first. It’s overkill, as 1 or 2ppm is more than a tank full of small fish will produce, but it has always worked very well, giving quick cycles in a lot of cases.
I’d think of 5 and 15 as maximums.

 

[rebe]

This was written by @TwoTankAmin https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

This is a great thread between @777james777 and @Essjay worth reading it all https://www.fishforums.net/threads/new-to-the-forum.489137/

And you have Dr Tim's take here https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library/quick-guide-to-fishless-cycling-with-one-and-only/

Nice bit of bedtime reading for you

Thank you so much! I'm looking forward to reading them later, just now I'm carefully trimming a few plants

 

[rebe]

Thank you so much! I'm looking forward to reading them later, just now I'm carefully trimming a few plants

Gotta get my aquarium fix in before bed

 

[rebe]

Waterlife Seamature (now Biomature) instructions were always to add daily until either ammonia reached 5ppm OR nitrite reached 15ppm, whichever came first. It’s overkill, as 1 or 2ppm is more than a tank full of small fish will produce, but it has always worked very well, giving quick cycles in a lot of cases.
I’d think of 5 and 15 as maximums.

Thank you, that's really helpful!

 

[rebe]

This was written by @TwoTankAmin https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

This is a great thread between @777james777 and @Essjay worth reading it all https://www.fishforums.net/threads/new-to-the-forum.489137/

And you have Dr Tim's take here https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library/quick-guide-to-fishless-cycling-with-one-and-only/

Nice bit of bedtime reading for you

Thanks so much for finding all of this great reading material! I just finished reading all 370 posts in the thread you suggested, may have stayed up too late... (past midnight ) oh well, I've got nothing on tomorrow!
A really interesting and insightful post, nice to hear about someone else's journey. Hope all goes well for you, and your future neon tetras @777james777 !