Think My Betta Is Dying

[jonnyuk]

thanks for the advice guys, i bought some interpet 9 yesterday so that will be going in the betta tank tonight after 50% water change.

things look allot better in the main tank, i did a near 100% water change on saturday before i added the first dose of waterlife myxazin, my other fish look ok now, they ate well last night too. I have one more dose of meds to do in 2 nights time.

maybe i caught that out break early in my main tank and together with a near full water change and meds have knocked it on the head. Not sure yet if i should dose some internal meds as well just as a precaution in the main tank once i have finished the current med???

Athena , if the betta pulls through he is going to get a new tank (currently in some rubbish looking plastic kids tank), i will move some of the shrimps and snails into his tank. i may take the tetra's back to my lfs as i really like the rasbora and corries.

i knew my fish count was a little high but i thought with all the plants, the over sized filter, frequent water changes and the amount of hiding places the fish would be ok. it has all just started once i added the betta, maybe it just pushed the tank and the fish over the edge so to speak or he had something wrong in the first place, who knows??

 

[Athena]

Hi Jonny

Well, sometimes fish don't show the effects of stress straight away. This could have been building up for weeks, then you added the betta and that tipped them over the edge, so to speak.

Really glad that you've managed to stop the disease in its tracks in the main tank! Super duper!

If they are all improving (pop eye gone?) I wouldn't dose other meds just for the sake of it.

But I would address the stock level asap otherwise you could find another outbreak in days/weeks to come, which you really don't want to happen.

As mentioned before, it's not just a case of being well-filtered or having lots of plants, but thought has to be given as to how much actual space the fish need to be happy. Slightly understocking a tank helps create less problems in that respect. I've come across plenty of people who overstock their tanks dramatically and then wonder why their fish die. It may appear there is plenty of room for them to swim about but do they really want several other shoals of fish in their face constantly, all crammed in together and no way of escaping each other? Yes, most of them are peaceful fish, but even peaceful fish need their own territory to some degree and when that is lacking they become stressed.

I guess we could say it's "Quality" and not "Quantity" that we should aim for LOL

Was on the train the other day and overheard a conversation a few seats behind me between two teenage girls...went something like this
"Oh yeah, my fish tank arrives tomorrow, I can't wait! It's quite big, 2ft I think"
"What fish are you going to have?"
"Well, I want an Oscar as the main fish...and I've seen these black sharks I like, I'll have some of those, and some Siamese Fighter fish - have you seen all the colours you get them in? Oh and I want loads of guppies, too, cos they're pretty..."

I just sat their cringing, wanting to intervene but thought I'd probably get told to mind my own business LOL She'll find out her mistakes soon enough!


Anyway, good luck with the Betta. I really hope he survives this. There have been quite a few forum members with poorly betta's lately and it's so sad...

Oh yes, I'd be careful about putting shrimp in with your betta - mine used to hunt them down and kill them!

All the best - Athena

 

[jonnyuk]

i see your point about stocking, suppose its one of those things where you think, you all have enough room to swim, levels are all good etc so you think it will be fine. i know i got tunnel vision in the sense it looked ok but i failed to see the bigger picture. learnt a valuable lesson, sadly at the expense of a fish.

the pop eye has gone, it was in its very early stage in the existing tetra's in the main tank, i won't add another med to the main tank then, i'll keep a close watch on them.

I guess we could say it's "Quality" and not "Quantity" that we should aim for LOL

so very true

i was at A5 aquatics on Sunday and i over heard a bloke buying fish, i saw on his note pad about 20 different fish, some of the fish i thought they should not be together and will be far to big for your tank. In fairness to the guy serving first asked the size of tank, how long it had been running, water stats etc, when the buyer said running for two weeks, 120ltr the sales guy said you should only put a few fish in first whilst it cycles etc. he soon shut up though when the buyer said yeah i know and continued to buy half the shop.
comming from a person who has over stocked his tank i felt like saying something but its not our place, in your case you would of got a mouth full of abuse, not worth it. however much you want to help other people sometimes you can only do so much.

Someone once told me only worry about things you can control and change. Not a truer word said.

Cheers
Jonathan

 

[jonnyuk]

well i think my betta is about dead, its now floating on the surface, very slow gill movement.

his fins are now rigid,so much so that he can't use them for swimming

his main body is very thin, looks like its been sucked in

his eyes where bog eyed but this could of been because he has lost all his body mass.

white patches on his gills

gaunt looking

dark in colour

when i first saw his eyes buldging i thought it was pop eye, given i lost a tetra to it, so i started on some fin rot/body rot pop eye stuff by waterlife myxazin, two days in and things have stayed the same, no improvement and no worse.

he did eat last night though, again chased some live food and eat the lot.

 

[WILDER]

It's not sounding to good i'm afraid. To much going off. The med no good for severe bacterial infection. You need a good internal bacteria med. Antibiotics, but they destroy the beneifical bacteria in the filter.


I would get this med but it will wipe the beneifical bacterial out in the filter.
JBL Furanol 2.

Soak the fish food in garlic juice if it's still eating.

Sunken in belly can be bacterial.

Keep on eye on the fish spine for bending.

 

[jonnyuk]

Keep on eye on the fish spine for bending.

its funny you should say this but now you have said the above it could well be he was bending his spine when smimming, along with very stiff fins.

i have internal meds, i'll do a water change tonight and start him on them.

cheers
Jonathan

 

[Athena]

Poor little betta - sorry to hear he's getting worse...

All of those external symptoms you mentioned can be caused by either bacterial disease or parasites.

Usually when things get this bad they are beyond help, I'm afraid. If he is eating but still wasting away, then it's likely to be internal parasites destroying his body mass from within.

I think we discussed the possibility of parasites early on didn't we? (Didn't he have white dots on his head or gills?). It really is so difficult to pinpoint the cause of something like this early on when the symptoms relate to so many different causes.

If only it was straightforward then we'd know exactly what to treat for from day 1.

I think you've done your best for this betta - you've not just ignored the problem and left him to it, you've really tried hard to find a cure and have spent money on various medications and searched for help.

As a last ditch attempt if you have any parasitic meds you could give that a try, although if his internal organs are already partly destroyed there really isn't going to be much chance of him surviving.

I hope I'm wrong...

Athena

 

[WILDER]

I'm not liking the sound of it.

Just going to read the thread again from the start.

 

[WILDER]

What does it look like when your fish go to the toilet.
is the anus enlarged or red and inflamed.

Also I want you to take a look at these symtoms to see how many symtoms match up.
Go and get you the link.

http/www.torrens.org.uk/NatHist/Aqua/disease/tb.html

 

[jonnyuk]

What does it look like when your fish go to the toilet.
is the anus enlarged or red and inflamed.

Also I want you to take a look at these symtoms to see how many symtoms match up.
Go and get you the link.

http/www.torrens.org.uk/NatHist/Aqua/disease/tb.html

i have read this, scary stuff, especially about the marine strain (i have to say i always end up with a bit of water in my mouth when i use the vac, don't swallow the water).

in terms of symtoms,


Loss of appetite = No
Progressive thinness = Yes
Sluggish movement = Yes
Folded fins = um not folded but def getting less and less, stuck together and rigid)
Eye protrusion = Yes, this is what led me to start on the pop eye treatment on tuesday night
Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish) = Yes
Skeletal deformity = Not yet but noticed last night he was swimming very stiff etc
Hanging at the surface = Yes
Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate = White patches on the gills
Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly) = Yes,dark coloration
Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out = Yes has fin rot i think
Scales loosening and falling out = No
General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy) = No


i don't think he will make it, will know more tonight wheni get home

cheers
Jonathan

 

[WILDER]

Does he look black in colour.
Check his eyes for blackess, and the iris of the eye for blackness.

 

[jonnyuk]

his eyes are white, with the iris black. compared to he was i would say he is dark, starts on the top of head where its darkest and gradually gets lighter down his back. he looks like he has been rolling around in mud.

i have taken some pics and will upload asap.

 

[jonnyuk]

added some pics, how ironic that this tank was my brothers for his betta that died, hence the RIP on the side of the tank

 

[Athena]

Hi Jonathan

Has the betta survived the night?

Can see from the pics that his fins are very clamped but the sunken belly is not as progressed as I had envisaged.

Although he does appear to have a darkened area on his body, there is still a chance that this is due from stress - some fish do turn a charcoalish grey colour when they are stressed out or have a bacterial disease.

What is the size of that tank he's in at the moment. I know you said it was a kiddies tank but is it all properly set up with a heater, filter, plants etc?

If there is a light on the tank, I wouldn't put it on for too long whilst the betta is sick.

Ok, so can you remind me what meds you are currently giving him, if any? The Protozin that the LFS recommended finished earlier this week didn't it?

Having seen these pics, I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope that there might still be something we can do for this fish.

Athena

 

[jonnyuk]

hi Athena, still alive....

ok the tank, its a heated/filtered 8 ltr tank, used existing filter media so its cycled etc. it has a big piece of bog wood in the bottom with arches to swim under/hide under, it has a silk plant in it, the temp is at 25c. the tank has plastic lid but no light, the tank is under a tube light in the kitchen (the tube light is under a unit, the tank on the work surface under the unit). this tube light is on for a few hours in the evening and i take the lid of at the point to let a bit light into the tank.


i'll recap the whole thing from the start as thread is abit long now.

got him about 2-3 weeks ago (seems along time ago). he spent the first week in my main tank, all seemed well until i started to notice him sitting on the bottom, fins looking twisted and just not looking right. at this point i put him in his current tank and with advice from my lfs put him on "Waterlife Protozin", i also gave him salt baths.

i let this run its course which meant by tuesday night i could start on a new med. when i came home on tuesday night i thought one of his eyes was swollen, like pop eye and given i lost a tetra in my main tank to something that gives fish budlging eyes i thought, right got to treat him for this now, so now he is on "waterlife myxazin" as i had this already.

the thing is he still eats well but really struggles to swim, his whole body looks stiff. part of me wants to put him out of his obvious pain, feel so sorry for him.

its hard knowing what to do for the best, i can't just keep putting meds in the tank surely.

thanks
jonathan