The Science Behind Acclimitisation

[Dave Spencer]

The CO2 drop checker uses 4dKH RO with Bromo Blue as the indicator. Turning the blue indication to green using CO2 diffusion dissolved to 30ppm corresponds to a pH drop of 1 point. The water the fish came in will have other factors affecting the pH.

Although opening the bag will almost instantaneously equalise the CO2 levels of the air in the bag with atmospheric levels, the water will take far longer to equalise, and there should be no dramatic pH change from this reaction.

Dave.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

so to drop the pH from an average neutral pH of 7 down to a pH of 4/5 (from bignoses table this is where the level of ammonia toxicity becomes low enough to be considered relativley harmless) you'd need to have something like 60/90ppm of Co2 in the water which is enough to kill the fish by itself anyway?

 

[rdd1952]

I think that's one of the reasons people lose fish and talk about the pH crash killed them. In actuallity, in those cases, I think the high CO2 level is what actually kills the fish and the pH drop is just a result of the high CO2 content and not necessarily the cause of the deaths.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I think that's one of the reasons people lose fish and talk about the pH crash killed them. In actuallity, in those cases, I think the high CO2 level is what actually kills the fish and the pH drop is just a result of the high CO2 content and not necessarily the cause of the deaths.

quite possibly, there's a number of factors affecting pH not just Co2 but it's certainly one of them!

 

[jollysue]

I thought I would add my input here.

It often takes more than 24 hours for fish to ship. I have had fish in transit for 3 days frequently due to shipping errors. Once I had fish lost in the USPS for about 4 wks. Some of them actually survived in the horrible water with dead fish.

Recently I had fish shipped to me overnight express USPS. The mail deliverer came and went earlier in the morning than I had ever seen her do. The fish were in the bags more than 48 hours. Well packed fish should be alright in that time, but these were not well packed. Several bags had leaked through both bags. I had three bags with dead fish. In one all the fish but one was dead. Guess what I did with that fish and 2 others in a different bag that had survived the horrors? I threw them immediately into a qt tank. I did not float them; I did not drip them. They are admittedly survivers, nevertheless, they are doing great, better than the others that I spent hours acclimating. I lost more of those fish over a few days.

I have tried the acclimitization method above. I know two others in the Cory section that have tried it. All three had good results. Two of us had the fish in transit 2 days. Mine had no loss of color and immediately oriented. They were all wild caught and held for qt and treatment in Florida before being sold to me.

ICEEGRL's were juvie adults bred and shipped by me. They also took 2 days. Two were tiny fry that I stuck in; they were smaller than a pencil eraser head. The juvie adults spawned the day she got them and the fry are alive and kicking. Can't get much more sensitive than that.

I know nothing about the science of this stuff. All I have is experential evidence. Now if I am changing a fish from a hard water tank to a soft water tank, I will surely take time--days--doing that change. But if I have a fish that has been in a few cups of water for a few days...? Until I find that my experience is different or the science is thorough to negate my experience, what should I do?

Usually my fish from shipping lose color and are jumpy after acclimitization. The fish that I used this method with had color, were not stressed, went immediately into Cory dance mode, and have spawned within days. Same with the neon gold cardinals that were in that shipment (no spawning or dancing.) lol

Admittedly, this is experiential evidence. But what is the science behind keeping fish in old water?

I only ask you to consider this carefully. I doubt that Miss Wiggles' fish were done in by this. But for those who often recieve large shipments of fish, look at it closely. It's about the fish...and not to mention the stress of spending hours upon hours acclimating under the old methods.

 

[rdd1952]

Along those same lines, I will say that sometimes, under extreme circumstances, the pH shock could be a beneficial thing. Close to 2 years ago, I had a serpae tetra that was floating on the top of the tank one morning. I was running late for work and couldn't do anything to try to doctor him. Not wanting him to die in the tank during the day and be eaten or start causing an ammonia spike, I just reached in and picked him up barehanded, no net. He was literally that bad off. He didn't even try to swim away I ran about 2 gallons of water straight from the tap into a 5 gallon bucket, squirted in some dechlor and dropped him in. Since the pH in the tank he was in runs around around 6.2 and my tap is 7.2, that was a major jolt. The temperature probably was also colder than the tank. I fully expected to return from work to a dead fish but to my surprise, when I got home, he was swimming in the bucket as if nothing had ever happened. I returned him the the tank and he lived for another year or so.

 

[jollysue]

By the way, the point is really about the toxic ammonia. Which is worse? Toxic ammonia or ph change? What is the best condition for the fish??

 

[rdd1952]

In the case of acclimation, ammonia is really only an issue if the fish have been shipped and been in the bag for a considerable period of time. If you just go to the LFS, at most the fish won't be in the bag for more than an hour or 2 and there will be very little ammonia in the bag.

Even for fish that have been shipped and are in ammonia water, the additional time (an hour or 2 again) they are in it during acclimation won't be as potentially damaging as a major pH change.

 

[Gill]

i buy alot of fish online now due to working less hours from ill health.
not lost any so far, even delicate hastatus cories and endlers.

what i do is this.

i take a tupperware container nice big and deep one. whiefurze make some nice sized ones perfect for aquariums.
poor out most of the water from the transport bag.
float in the tank for 5-10 mins.
using a large turkey baster, baste waer into the tub every couple of mins.
once the tub fills up.
pour away the water - not back ito the tank.
then i tip the tuband l let larger amounts of water in.
again continue till tub fills. and then pour all contents into the tank or if very fragile fish use a net breeder for a few days.

use this method for acclimating to my outdoor tanks aswell.

 

[jollysue]

In the case of acclimation, ammonia is really only an issue if the fish have been shipped and been in the bag for a considerable period of time. If you just go to the LFS, at most the fish won't be in the bag for more than an hour or 2 and there will be very little ammonia in the bag.

Even for fish that have been shipped and are in ammonia water, the additional time (an hour or 2 again) they are in it during acclimation won't be as potentially damaging as a major pH change.

This is admittedly about shipping fish. Although when I get fish at the LPS/LFS, I don't worry too much about differences in water composition, as we are on the same water table. It is more about temp shock so I float the bag or pour them into a hang on container in the tank and let them sit in the old water for 20 or 30 minutes and then do a short drip. But now I will use the new method: float the bag and into the tank.

 

[jollysue]

i buy alot of fish online now due to working less hours from ill health.
not lost any so far, even delicate hastatus cories and endlers.

what i do is this.

i take a tupperware container nice big and deep one. whiefurze make some nice sized ones perfect for aquariums.
poor out most of the water from the transport bag.
float in the tank for 5-10 mins.
using a large turkey baster, baste waer into the tub every couple of mins.
once the tub fills up.
pour away the water - not back ito the tank.
then i tip the tuband l let larger amounts of water in.
again continue till tub fills. and then pour all contents into the tank or if very fragile fish use a net breeder for a few days.

use this method for acclimating to my outdoor tanks aswell.

Similar to the method I was using. I sometimes, like CFC, took hours doing this. BUT the fish never looked as good after as the ones I used this new method on. Most of our acclimitization methods are based on old ways, I think,, ie old water is better than new water. The thought about old water has changed but our methods are still changing

 

[rdd1952]

I don't worry too much about differences in water composition, as we are on the same water table.

Even at that, there can still be some pretty big differences. When I bought my angels (about 8 miles from my house) the pH in the bag was so far below 6.0 that it took aver an hour of adding 7.0 water from the tank to the bag every 12 minutes just to get the pH in the bag to change to 6.2. It had to be in the mid 5s.

 

[Tolak]

I've been drip acclimating for years with fish obtained from a source where I don't know the water parameters. For fish locally obtained who have been in the same water I'll float the bag, add a little water, pour the bag of water into a net over a bucket to catch the fish, then add them to the tank. For drip acclimating, or acclimating local fish that have been bagged for several hours I get the bottle of Ammo-Lock open & ready before I open the bag. Immediately after cutting the bag open I give it a few drops to a squirt depending on the shipping time & amount of water.

 

[jollysue]

I've been drip acclimating for years with fish obtained from a source where I don't know the water parameters. For fish locally obtained who have been in the same water I'll float the bag, add a little water, pour the bag of water into a net over a bucket to catch the fish, then add them to the tank. For drip acclimating, or acclimating local fish that have been bagged for several hours I get the bottle of Ammo-Lock open & ready before I open the bag. Immediately after cutting the bag open I give it a few drops to a squirt depending on the shipping time & amount of water.

Always got a good idea, Tolak. You are a true Chicago pragmatist! I have gotten a good idea from you every time you offer your experience.

 

[ArauraDiscus]

Thanks for posting this Miss Wiggle, you started a good and interesting conversation!