Thanks for nothing Petco!

[Colin_T]

You need to test the antler in a separate bucket of water so nothing in the tank affects the pH reading.

Get 2 buckets and fill them with tap water. Check the pH on both buckets and write the results down. Put the antler in one bucket and leave it there for a week or two. The other bucket has nothing but water in and is the control. Monitor the pH on both buckets during that time. See if there's any difference at the end of a week and two weeks.

 

[jaylach]

You need to test the antler in a separate bucket of water so nothing in the tank affects the pH reading.

Get 2 buckets and fill them with tap water. Check the pH on both buckets and write the results down. Put the antler in one bucket and leave it there for a week or two. The other bucket has nothing but water in and is the control. Monitor the pH on both buckets during that time. See if there's any difference at the end of a week and two weeks.

I understand what you are saying about testing the antler out of the tank but is not my concern the affect with the thing in the tank? Keep in mind that my current test is without fish so no harm can be done. I mean the tank conditions could affect what the antler does in relation to PH. I am not arguing but don't understand the logic of testing outside of the tank.

Granted that it is most likely that a toxin killed my fish the tank looks better than it ever has with no cloud. This may well be due to the toxin killing bacteria blooms. Still, from a new starting point, it looks good even though most plants are just floating free without anchors.Ammonia has risen from ~0.25 to ~0.75 but that is probably due to dead fish before removal. I hope that I can re-do the tank while maintaining the clarity. Lordy, I hope what I've said does not seem cold in relation to the dead fish as I am very upset about all of this. It just seems to me that I have to get over it and go forward.

 

[jaylach]

Just got done with a 'live chat' with a Petco rep.. Half an hour later all that was done was that the person said they would have someone contact me. I really don't expect any satisfaction...

 

[Rocky998]

But then again... Maybe they will do something... Hopefully

 

[jaylach]

But then again... Maybe they will do something... Hopefully

Ya, possible, but I have my doubts when dealing with a 'big box' store.

Still surprises me that the tank is now totally clear without fog. I previously thought that the fog was an over influsion of free oxygen in the water but actually MAY have been an ongoing bacteria bloom that the toxin killed.

 

[Alice B]

I thought about getting retribution from Petco but won't happen as there is no way that I can prove that the infestation came from the plants even though there is really no other option.

Sigh, the tetras have started 'twitching' like spasms. I don't believe that I can save them. I MAY euthanize in the morning. What is the best way to euthanize these days?

Still it is partly my fault for not having a quarantine tank. Since my main is just a 20 gallon cube I'm not going to have large fish. A 2-3 gallon quarantine tank would probably suffice. Still even if the plants sat in quarantine for a week or whatever they could have still been infected.

While I can't say that I like the idea of getting live stuff mail order I think that I'm done with Petco. Heck, if nothing else they over price drastically. The food mix I feed my cockatiel is twice the price at Petco than at my local grocery store even though it is the exact same product.

a 10 gallon quarantine tank with an air pump and sponge filter are a wise investment. light if you are going to do plants. Heater if needed. Personally when I buy plants (which I try NOT to do), I dip in a bleach water solution before they touch one of my tanks. saves me from plant quarantine

 

[jaylach]

OK, here is my plan after giving some thought. Please point out any mistakes... The following will take time but I'm in no hurry.

First I'm going to do near 100% water changes over the next two weeks to try to remove toxins while trying to save the plants. I will then allow the tank to cycle again with just plants. Hopefully this will result in a cycled tank with established plants. Within a couple of weeks I will know if the antler is a PH issue and can go from there as to the antler.

When ready to add fish... probably 6-8 weeks... I will probably do Corys as they were the first to fall under the toxin that killed everything. I will have a quarantine tank ready if there is any distress but it may be hard to detect as the dead corys showed no physical issue... They were fine and then, a few hours later, they were all dead. Still I would want to use fish as a test that were previously involved. If everything works out OK I'd rather have the corys than testing with black skirt tetras as I'm really not a fan even though the black skirts lasted longer with the toxin. Again, not to sound cold, I'd rather test with a fish I would want than be stuck with making a school of fish I really don't want.

 

[jaylach]

a 10 gallon quarantine tank with an air pump and sponge filter are a wise investment. light if you are going to do plants. Heater if needed. Personally when I buy plants (which I try NOT to do), I dip in a bleach water solution before they touch one of my tanks. saves me from plant quarantine

A 10 gallon tank MIGHT be possible for isolation but a 5 gallon tank would fit better. It has to be remembered that I live in a 1-bedroom apartment that also holds a very large bird cage and a chest freezer. An isolation tank would have to go in my bedroom. Since my main tank is just a 20 gallon cube it seems to me that a 5 gallon tank should suffice for isolation as there are not going to be any large fish.

Regardless of the size of an isolation tank I would do my best to duplicate the conditions of my main 20 gallon cube.

 

[jaylach]

But then again... Maybe they will do something... Hopefully

They may well be willing to replace fish I bought from them but it will probably be a battle. Best that I really see is a store credit that equals my loss but do I really want to use a store credit to get more of their stuff???

 

[jaylach]

Hey, just to put a lighter side to this stuff here is sort of what I'm looking to do. Keep in mind that this is just a rough outline and each of the three points of the antler would have a plant mounted...

Even if you don't like fake stuff the fake tree trunk isn't too bad...

The plants that would be mounted on the antler would be 2 Java Ferns and the thing that is mirrored on the right... can't remember what it is...

To the left of the image would be 4 Anubias in a close cluster.

Behind the fake tree trunk will be filled with fast growing stem plants... Can't recall the name at the moment but it will do a good job of filling space and hiding the air risers. Just by messing around I think that I'm going to end up with a pretty good looking tank.

Hey, compared to what I've seen as to tanks on this sight what I'm doing is VERY basic and simple but I only have to please me and I think I will like the final results. I'm just not going to go about gluing plants on stuff before knowing the tank is fish safe....

Some one some where said that death leads to birth. Mayhaps my loss will end up with a better situation... Only time will say for sure. Personally I think the tank is looking OK as is but needs further work an to the plants.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

This issue is almost 99.99999% certain to be the use/misuse of a garden strength/non aquatic safe pesticide on the plants whilst they were instore. Most likely done when the batch arrived at the store from their suppliers.

A member of staff there whether by lack of knowledge or just trying to be helpful has used something to get rid of a snail or other bug infestation from the plants.

As I stated earlier in the thread...accidents happen as do well meaning staff doing the wrong thing thinking they were being useful.

Residue from the pesticide will have gone into the gravel, the UGF (and lines), decor....everywhere will have a residue coating....even the inside of the glass and hood will have a measure of it

Your best bet will be to throw all the substrate away, throw all the decor away, throw the UGF away...bleach clean the entire aquarium & hood and leave them to air dry.

Pesticide poisoning hangs around in the gravel of a fast moving river...so in a confined cube or any aquarium, it will be significantly worse in its effect

Obviously you are far from keen to throw stuff away and start from scratch...we would all be the same...but to be absolutely sure that you do not suffer the same fish deaths again, you have to bite the proverbial bullet and throw it all away, bleach the aquarium and hood (remember condensation and splashing from the aquarium ends up on the hood) and start from square one again...even though it means going through the cycling process again

Honestly you have zero choice cos whatever pesticide was used killed the fish just as it would as run off from a farmers field into a lake.

 

[jaylach]

This issue is almost 99.99999% certain to be the use/misuse of a garden strength/non aquatic safe pesticide on the plants whilst they were instore. Most likely done when the batch arrived at the store from their suppliers.

A member of staff there whether by lack of knowledge or just trying to be helpful has used something to get rid of a snail or other bug infestation from the plants.

As I stated earlier in the thread...accidents happen as do well meaning staff doing the wrong thing thinking they were being useful.

Residue from the pesticide will have gone into the gravel, the UGF (and lines), decor....everywhere will have a residue coating....even the inside of the glass and hood will have a measure of it

Your best bet will be to throw all the substrate away, throw all the decor away, throw the UGF away...bleach clean the entire aquarium & hood and leave them to air dry.

Pesticide poisoning hangs around in the gravel of a fast moving river...so in a confined cube or any aquarium, it will be significantly worse in its effect

Obviously you are far from keen to throw stuff away and start from scratch...we would all be the same...but to be absolutely sure that you do not suffer the same fish deaths again, you have to bite the proverbial bullet and throw it all away, bleach the aquarium and hood (remember condensation and splashing from the aquarium ends up on the hood) and start from square one again...even though it means going through the cycling process again

Honestly you have zero choice cos whatever pesticide was used killed the fish just as it would as run off from a farmers field into a lake.

I actually agree with what you say but I also have to look at what others say. As I seem to be getting different advice I think that I'm just going to sit back and take things slow to se what happens..,... I mean, as I said, I don't even expect to put a live fish in the tank for at least 6-8 weeks. I really think that drastic water changes during this time should remove toxins while allowing me to save the plants.

 

[becky412]

So sorry about your fish. That is a hard loss. I do not trust buying fish, or plants, from PetsMart to Petco. Their filtration is a central system so any disease can be filter out of the sick tank into the others. The only "real" fish store near me (1 hour away) uses individual filters per tank or sponge filters in their tanks. Although no guarantee, I feel more comfortable buying from them. Honestly if this was me, would be draining the 55g tank down to nothing, pulling all the substrate, decor and plants (trashing the live ones since they were the cause) and bleaching everything (including my canister) rinsing well, well, well, let everything sit a week in the sun, then move forward.

BTW, I like the tank, reminds me of my 20 gallon extra high. Loved that tank. Where did you find yours? ANd where diyou find the fake tree trunk. Most cool.

 

[jaylach]

So sorry about your fish. That is a hard loss. I do not trust buying fish, or plants, from PetsMart to Petco. Their filtration is a central system so any disease can be filter out of the sick tank into the others. The only "real" fish store near me (1 hour away) uses individual filters per tank or sponge filters in their tanks. Although no guarantee, I feel more comfortable buying from them. Honestly if this was me, would be draining the 55g tank down to nothing, pulling all the substrate, decor and plants (trashing the live ones since they were the cause) and bleaching everything (including my canister) rinsing well, well, well, let everything sit a week in the sun, then move forward.

BTW, I like the tank, reminds me of my 20 gallon extra high. Loved that tank. Where did you find yours? ANd where diyou find the fake tree trunk. Most cool.

LOL! Oddly I got the tree trunk from Petco. As to the tank I found it on-line but regret a bit. I am sort of forced to use the built in filtration or the chambers will stagnate. I'm old school and would rather go strictly under gravel filtration. The original built in filtration pushed 264 gallons per hour which was not workable. I replaced with a 93 gallon per hour pump just to move water. I just don't get this 'modern stuff'. It all seems to take more effort with less results. I would bet dollars to donuts that under gravel filtration set up properly will out perform this built in crude by a mile.

With the built in stuff the filtration is really rather small in relation to the tank size. With under gravel filtration the entire bottom area of the tank is the filter. Do the math... which gives more filtration area? Under gravel filtration also adds more oxygen to the tank as it is actually powered by air bubbles driving the water flow.

Mayhaps I'm wrong but I seem to think that old school can be better..........

 

[becky412]

LOL! Oddly I got the tree trunk from Petco. As to the tank I found it on-line but regret a bit. I am sort of forced to use the built in filtration or the chambers will stagnate. I'm old school and would rather go strictly under gravel filtration. The original built in filtration pushed 264 gallons per hour which was not workable. I replaced with a 93 gallon per hour pump just to move water. I just don't get this 'modern stuff'. It all seems to take more effort with less results. I would bet dollars to donuts that under gravel filtration set up properly will out perform this built in crude by a mile.

With the built in stuff the filtration is really rather small in relation to the tank size. With under gravel filtration the entire bottom area of the tank is the filter. Do the math... which gives more filtration area? Under gravel filtration also adds more oxygen to the tank as it is actually powered by air bubbles driving the water flow.

Mayhaps I'm wrong but I seem to think that old school can be better..........

Hmmmm, might have to look for that. Yeah, I am also old school. I have used the in the corner filters, now extinct, HOB's, under gravel with power heads and cannister I think the only thing I havent tried is the sponge and the sump (no thanks!!). I was introduced to the undergravel and cannister when I decided saltwater tank was the way to go (nothing like flushing $100 bills down the toilet). I liked the undergravel..........until it came time to pull it up to restart the tank from salt to fresh. Man!!!! what a mess!!! Anyway, I am "trying" this fishless start for a new tank, but not going well. I am thinking the old way is the best way. Add a few fish, wait a while, add a few more, wait a while, etc. At least you have something to enjoy in the new tank setup instead of blank water for weeks. But, I will try again thanks to another TwoTankAdmin holding my hand. If it doesn't work this time, the old school way is going to happen.