Testing

Even then I reckon if it was kept stable there would definately be chance of them doing well.

It's the pH swings that effect fish most. At 7.6 I'd expect no breeding at all and possibly a shorter life span. The acclimatisation would have to be spot on though for them to thrive.

James.
 
Even then I reckon if it was kept stable there would definately be chance of them doing well.

It's the pH swings that effect fish most. At 7.6 I'd expect no breeding at all and possibly a shorter life span. The acclimatisation would have to be spot on though for them to thrive.

James.

I doubt a GBR would ever 'thrive' in a pH of 7.6
 
I have no doubt about it to be honest. Providing temperature is at 28+ and Ammonia, Nitrite are kept 0 at all times. Plus good weekly maintenence and fed on frozen and live foods.

This goes back to Marks original point of pH being drastically overhyped.

James.
 
Even then I reckon if it was kept stable there would definately be chance of them doing well.

It's the pH swings that effect fish most. At 7.6 I'd expect no breeding at all and possibly a shorter life span. The acclimatisation would have to be spot on though for them to thrive.

James.

I doubt a GBR would ever 'thrive' in a pH of 7.6

I can do better then that. EVERY type of fish is variable to where its strain came from. You get GBR from a source that leads all the way back to Columbia then yeah probably have issues at high pH. But use the proper source and its not an issue. I raise GBR from quarter inch fry in my tap with pH 7.4 and 20ppm nitrates to start with. They grew up well and eventually a pair did spawn in my community show tank which is also in a very noisy daycare. There was pressurized CO2 on that tank, pH was probably 7.2 but could of been 7.0 IDK. Nitrates are generally 40ppm in that tank, but it was actually a week behind on its normal 50% weekly water changes at the time the GBR spawned. Proper source and I wasn't even trying to spawn them. It was finals week and breeding fish was actually the last thing on my mind.

BTW stable is all relative. As someone who messes with my tanks regularly I feel stable is not really important. Its how the pH changes. Erratically then yes its an issue as it is unpredictable. However a regular swing in pH and tempature should not be an issue for healthy well bred fish. CO2 on only during the day causes a regular pH change, lowest during the day and highest at night. I've done the opposite with temp, but not using rams. Its expected, its gradual, its not a problem for most fish. Especially if you source your fish properly.

edit: As far as testing. It really depends on experience. Test kit is needed to start. Once you are familiar with starting a tank and fish in general test kits become secondary. Fish will be the first to tell you if something is wrong. I can setup a tank, add fish, never test water and I can know ammonia/nitrite are zero due to how I prefer to run things. I feel it is vital to know what water you ADDING to the tank, I care much less about the water already in the tank.
 
so what about were
i used to live the water
that came out of the tap
had a PH of 7 but after 12
to 24 hrs the PH would drop
to 6 to 5.5 so were do you stand
on that one for stability thats
a big swing in ph that
 
so what about were
i used to live the water
that came out of the tap
had a PH of 7 but after 12
to 24 hrs the PH would drop
to 6 to 5.5 so were do you stand
on that one for stability thats
a big swing in ph that

thing is, what can you do about it? PH adjustment (stable) is a nightmare. best to keep fish you water suites. and a drop from 7 to 6 (unless your fish can not stand ph6) will have little effect. temperature, PH and a myriad of other things, swing just as much, if not more, in the wild.

now if we all used proper testing equipment (vastly expensive), perhaps it may be justified. but , for the most part, the kits we use are, inaccurate and open to personal interpretation. so you are never, completely, sure if your readings are right.

after the first 6-9 months (tank should be mature) there is little point in testing. unless you notice a problem. even then it just, confirms, your worries. most have already worked out their problem.
 
i used to draw water leave to stand
and then use i did this for years
then i got a in line twin pod water filter
and just started to fill straight
from that never bothered about pH
temp or anything and believe it or
not still didn't lose any fish
in fact i think the actually
got better the bred a lot more
and there colour improved
mind you i never kept rams
i think it was only fish
i never kept everything
else

mind you a good dechlorinator is needed
 
indeed a good "dechlorinator is vital. though i tend to use to to control heavy metals, as well as its primary role. For several years i used no dechlorinator. only starting again, because of the aforementioned.
 
indeed a good "dechlorinator is vital. though i tend to use to to control heavy metals, as well as its primary role. For several years i used no dechlorinator. only starting again, because of the aforementioned.


i don't use it on our
goldfish they thrive
on tap water they even
breed in it
 
indeed a good "dechlorinator is vital. though i tend to use to to control heavy metals, as well as its primary role. For several years i used no dechlorinator. only starting again, because of the aforementioned.


i don't use it on our
goldfish they thrive
on tap water they even
breed in it

quite so! :good:

and there about ten year old
and lived in a tank that didnt
get a water change in five years
before we got them it was a smokers house
when we changed the water it was yellow
and you could smell the nicotine in
the water i think the pH must of been about
3.5 to 4 it was that acid that one is blind
and the other is partly sighted


it took us a long time
to get them off 40 a day
 
so what about were
i used to live the water
that came out of the tap
had a PH of 7 but after 12
to 24 hrs the PH would drop
to 6 to 5.5 so were do you stand
on that one for stability thats
a big swing in ph that

That would not be gradual and regular, therefor not safe. You are changing a whole degree in at least 12 hours, that can almost qualify as a pH drop. I've never seen a fish bothered by a gradual and regular 0.5 "swing" in pH. pH swings in most of my tanks, IDK how much exactly but I am guessing between .2-.5 daily. That means a increase during the day and decrease at night. Every 12 hours it should be around .3 difference, every 24 hours pH should test the same. Its gradual and regular not sudden and only happening occasionally. Lots of my fish spawn currently I have angelfish, emperor tetras, and boesemani rainbow that spawn regularly in a community setting. I got some new blue eye rainbows a couple weeks ago and have only found one egg from them, but some discrepancies if they spawn on the bottom or above it. Some fish like the emperors I've never seen eggs from but I have found the lucky quarter inch fry that beat the odds and now swims alongside his parents. Fish may spawn in my water just fine despite all the reasons they shouldn't be. Eggs though I'm not very good with same with raising fry.

My water changes are done with my tap which is well water. I no water treatments or things like prime. I run a hose from the faucet and stick it in the tank and turn it on. Kinda match temp but anything within 5* is fine for me. I generally use cooler water. Heavy metals I could care less about. Plants serve there purpose well. Binding up heavy metals would be detrimental to the plants, especially in high tech where they are always screaming for food. Iron, cobalt, copper, zinc ect are all heavy metals and are also vital trace elements. I know trace amounts of iron are in my tap, the rest IDK. They are in my fertilizers though. It would make no sense to bind heavy metals and add them at the same time.

Like I said, what I care most about is my tap water. I know its stats and know how it will act, whats in it, what I need to add, what I don't. I know it is stable, has changed .4 in pH in 4 years. I know it is moderately hard and thus has quite a decent buffering ability making it resist swinging. The water where you use to live must of been soft with low buffering ability. All water is not equal. If I tried to use CO2 to lower my tap pH to 6.0 I would kill the fish via CO2 overdose before I hit that. Know your water and know chemistry and you can predict how it will change to what you do.

Temp is the same, gradual and regular. You really think fish in the wild lived in perfectly stable conditions where water quality and temperature never fluctuated? It changed from day to night, with water currents, with water depth, over the course of seasons, these changes are once of the triggering factors of certain fish spawning.

A single species can very greatly. IDK why people believe GBR can't do well in higher pH and hard water. Its not important what the fishes natural parameters are in the wild, unless it is a wild caught fish. What matters is in what conditions was is spawned, hatched, and raised. What fixes most all problems is buying locally bred fish. Fish bred local waters will spawn and thrive. I know not all have access to locally bred fish. But I stopped buying stock from LFS long ago. They may have lots of fish I like, but the fact is most are imported and won't breed in my water or will be difficult. Since sticking with over 90% fish from the local club even though selection is smaller/skewed, fish are cheaper, high quality, always healthy, and will generally spawn in local water.
 
so what about were
i used to live the water
that came out of the tap
had a PH of 7 but after 12
to 24 hrs the PH would drop
to 6 to 5.5 so were do you stand
on that one for stability thats
a big swing in ph that

That would not be gradual and regular, therefor not safe. You are changing a whole degree in at least 12 hours, that can almost qualify as a pH drop. I've never seen a fish bothered by a gradual and regular 0.5 "swing" in pH. pH swings in most of my tanks, IDK how much exactly but I am guessing between .2-.5 daily. That means a increase during the day and decrease at night. Every 12 hours it should be around .3 difference, every 24 hours pH should test the same. Its gradual and regular not sudden and only happening occasionally. Lots of my fish spawn currently I have angelfish, emperor tetras, and boesemani rainbow that spawn regularly in a community setting. I got some new blue eye rainbows a couple weeks ago and have only found one egg from them, but some discrepancies if they spawn on the bottom or above it. Some fish like the emperors I've never seen eggs from but I have found the lucky quarter inch fry that beat the odds and now swims alongside his parents. Fish may spawn in my water just fine despite all the reasons they shouldn't be. Eggs though I'm not very good with same with raising fry.

My water changes are done with my tap which is well water. I no water treatments or things like prime. I run a hose from the faucet and stick it in the tank and turn it on. Kinda match temp but anything within 5* is fine for me. I generally use cooler water. Heavy metals I could care less about. Plants serve there purpose well. Binding up heavy metals would be detrimental to the plants, especially in high tech where they are always screaming for food. Iron, cobalt, copper, zinc ect are all heavy metals and are also vital trace elements. I know trace amounts of iron are in my tap, the rest IDK. They are in my fertilizers though. It would make no sense to bind heavy metals and add them at the same time.

Like I said, what I care most about is my tap water. I know its stats and know how it will act, whats in it, what I need to add, what I don't. I know it is stable, has changed .4 in pH in 4 years. I know it is moderately hard and thus has quite a decent buffering ability making it resist swinging. The water where you use to live must of been soft with low buffering ability. All water is not equal. If I tried to use CO2 to lower my tap pH to 6.0 I would kill the fish via CO2 overdose before I hit that. Know your water and know chemistry and you can predict how it will change to what you do.

Temp is the same, gradual and regular. You really think fish in the wild lived in perfectly stable conditions where water quality and temperature never fluctuated? It changed from day to night, with water currents, with water depth, over the course of seasons, these changes are once of the triggering factors of certain fish spawning.

A single species can very greatly. IDK why people believe GBR can't do well in higher pH and hard water. Its not important what the fishes natural parameters are in the wild, unless it is a wild caught fish. What matters is in what conditions was is spawned, hatched, and raised. What fixes most all problems is buying locally bred fish. Fish bred local waters will spawn and thrive. I know not all have access to locally bred fish. But I stopped buying stock from LFS long ago. They may have lots of fish I like, but the fact is most are imported and won't breed in my water or will be difficult. Since sticking with over 90% fish from the local club even though selection is smaller/skewed, fish are cheaper, high quality, always healthy, and will generally spawn in local water.
The best read i've had in ages.
 
so what about were
i used to live the water
that came out of the tap
had a PH of 7 but after 12
to 24 hrs the PH would drop
to 6 to 5.5 so were do you stand
on that one for stability thats
a big swing in ph that

That would not be gradual and regular, therefor not safe. You are changing a whole degree in at least 12 hours, that can almost qualify as a pH drop. I've never seen a fish bothered by a gradual and regular 0.5 "swing" in pH. pH swings in most of my tanks, IDK how much exactly but I am guessing between .2-.5 daily. That means a increase during the day and decrease at night. Every 12 hours it should be around .3 difference, every 24 hours pH should test the same. Its gradual and regular not sudden and only happening occasionally. Lots of my fish spawn currently I have angelfish, emperor tetras, and boesemani rainbow that spawn regularly in a community setting. I got some new blue eye rainbows a couple weeks ago and have only found one egg from them, but some discrepancies if they spawn on the bottom or above it. Some fish like the emperors I've never seen eggs from but I have found the lucky quarter inch fry that beat the odds and now swims alongside his parents. Fish may spawn in my water just fine despite all the reasons they shouldn't be. Eggs though I'm not very good with same with raising fry.

My water changes are done with my tap which is well water. I no water treatments or things like prime. I run a hose from the faucet and stick it in the tank and turn it on. Kinda match temp but anything within 5* is fine for me. I generally use cooler water. Heavy metals I could care less about. Plants serve there purpose well. Binding up heavy metals would be detrimental to the plants, especially in high tech where they are always screaming for food. Iron, cobalt, copper, zinc ect are all heavy metals and are also vital trace elements. I know trace amounts of iron are in my tap, the rest IDK. They are in my fertilizers though. It would make no sense to bind heavy metals and add them at the same time.

Like I said, what I care most about is my tap water. I know its stats and know how it will act, whats in it, what I need to add, what I don't. I know it is stable, has changed .4 in pH in 4 years. I know it is moderately hard and thus has quite a decent buffering ability making it resist swinging. The water where you use to live must of been soft with low buffering ability. All water is not equal. If I tried to use CO2 to lower my tap pH to 6.0 I would kill the fish via CO2 overdose before I hit that. Know your water and know chemistry and you can predict how it will change to what you do.

Temp is the same, gradual and regular. You really think fish in the wild lived in perfectly stable conditions where water quality and temperature never fluctuated? It changed from day to night, with water currents, with water depth, over the course of seasons, these changes are once of the triggering factors of certain fish spawning.

A single species can very greatly. IDK why people believe GBR can't do well in higher pH and hard water. Its not important what the fishes natural parameters are in the wild, unless it is a wild caught fish. What matters is in what conditions was is spawned, hatched, and raised. What fixes most all problems is buying locally bred fish. Fish bred local waters will spawn and thrive. I know not all have access to locally bred fish. But I stopped buying stock from LFS long ago. They may have lots of fish I like, but the fact is most are imported and won't breed in my water or will be difficult. Since sticking with over 90% fish from the local club even though selection is smaller/skewed, fish are cheaper, high quality, always healthy, and will generally spawn in local water.

outstanding post :good:
 
cracking post




this is the type of twin pods
i was on about that i used to use
http://www.coastal-koi.com/shopping.php?class_id=73
 

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